HOMEBREW Digest #521 Fri 19 October 1990

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Wort chilling (mike_schrempp)
  Apple beer (Shannon Posniewski)
  Re:  Aluminum???? (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Too much sugar (John DeCarlo)
  Re:  Drinking Fermented Fluids (John DeCarlo)
  Temperature controller, Lager questions (davidson)
  Manchester brewers (Russ Gelinas)
  Automash (Mike Zentner)
  carboys (An-shyang Chu)
  Date sugar for brewing? (tking)
  re: Rolling Rock and aftertastes (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  AHA Competition (Jay Hersh)
  Re: Yeast in mead (dw)
  Re: Yeast in mead (dw)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr at hplabs.hp.com [Please do not send me requests for back issues] Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Oct 90 08:06 -0800 From: mike_schrempp%29 at hp4200.desk.hp.com Subject: Wort chilling I just brewed a batch last night and created a data point for those who care about using ice to chill wort. I froze a 5 quarts of water and threw it into 1.5 gallons of boiling wort. I calculated this would bring it down to 65degrees. Well, after 10 minutes it was down to 59 and I pulled out about a 1 quart block. I guess there was quite a bit of cooling through the sides of the pot. Point is, this quick chill method worked for me, and I'll continue to use it in the future, at least until I start those all-grain 5 gallon boils. Mike Schrempp "If my boss knew I did this from work, I'd have to share my beer." Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 90 15:23:26 EDT From: imagesys!shannon at uu.psi.com (Shannon Posniewski) Subject: Apple beer Here is an example of a apple beer that we brewed in March. It is based on the Cherries in the Snow recipe in Papazian's book. The reason we chose this particular recipe as a base is that we were actually planning to make it with cherries. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how one looks at it) it was not possible to get cherries, or raspberries, or any-other-berries at the time. We settled for apples. They were inexpensive (cheap), we liked them, and readily available. The recipe is below, including the comments we've made since the time it was brewed. It is a direct copy of the log we keep, minus the wort-stains. But first, some comments on the apples we used. We used 9lbs. of granny smith and 3lbs. of macintosh apples. We chose granny smiths because we wanted to have an "appley" flavor. What many people define as "appley" is mainly caused by the sugar found most often in apples: fructose. We figured that most of the fructose would be snarfed up by the yeasties, so we wanted an apple that had more than a mere fructose taste. Granny smith apples fit the bill. (And besides, we like them.) Here's the recipe: Apples in the snow 1.5 gal cold water 6.6 lbs John Bull Malt Extract Light (any brand should do) 1 lb corn sugar 2 oz Hallertauer Hops (boiling) .5 oz Hallertauer Hops (finishing) 12 lbs apples (9lbs Granny Smith, 3lbs. Macintosh) 3.5 gal cold water with water crystals 2 pkg Ale yeast (we used Edme) .75 cup corn sugar (for priming) Cut up apples into 8-10 slices each (discard cores). Put 1.5 gal water, and boiling hops in pot. Bring to a boil. Add extract and 1lb corn sugar. Boil 40 minutes. Add finishing hops and apples. Let sit and steep for 15 minutes. Take the entire wort and pour into a plastic fermenter that has water and water crystals in it. Push apples to one side, pitch yeast and stir. (This may sound scary to those of you who are paranoid about infections, but don't panic. The steeping (in boiling wort) should kill any nasties. If you are _really_ worried, simmer it and keep it at a boil. Once you put it in the fermenter, the cap is on and nothing can get in...) We let it ferment for 3 weeks. Sparged into a handy plastic bucket, added .75c corn sugar, strred, and bottled. At this point it tasted "sweet, kinda appley (not surprising). Hops yield an interesting secondary taste. Might taste better a little cooler than 75oF." (and flat, BTW) We let carbonate for a little under a month. Here's a quote: "Not very sweet; next time less hops. The carbonation yeasties over-carbonated at this point. The beer was kept at 60oF for the whole time." Summary: Boil: 40m Original.S.G. 1.050 Finish/Steep: 15m Finished.S.G. 1.015 primary fermentation: 3 weeks. bottle fermentation: 4 weeks. Some comments: Perhaps the use of Saaz (or other, more delicate) hops, or less hops at the boiling stage would reduce the hop flavor a bit. I am a hop-head, and it was _still_ too hoppy for this beer. Over-carbonation was probably caused by the length of time the beer was left at a warm temperature. After 3 weeks, I suggest cooling it down. This will slow (possibly) stop the carbonation and keep the beer sweeter. I have a couple bottles (which I necessarily hid) around now. I had one last night. It was "immaculate" (as Dan would say). No over-carb, lightly sweet, with the taste tilted towards the hops more than the apple. In any case, enjoy the beer! It is _really_ good. A pleasant surprise from what amounted to an experiement. Slainte! Shannon (With help from Dan Wiesen and Pete Oehler) ****************************************************************************** * Shannon Posniewski * The beer erupts in a tower of foam! * * Image Systems Technology, Inc. * You die. * * shannon at imagesys.com * RIP Warthog, killed by a tower of foam. * ****************************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thursday, 18 Oct 1990 07:43:16 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Aluminum???? >Date: Sun, 14 Oct 90 19:58:48 EDT >From: cjh%vallance.eng.ileaf.com at hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chip Hitchcock) >In #516, Kinney Baughman [RE: Chilling Time (Steve Slade)], >wrote: >> I don't have the particulars, and ... perhaps you already know this, >> but...boiling wort in aluminum pots has generally been recognized as a >> bad idea. Anyone out there in Netland care to enlighten us as >> to exactly why? >It's a perennial (and probably periodic) topic. Here's how I >understand the controversy: [stuff deleted about Alzheimer's] OK, here is my understanding. High acid liquids leach aluminum from aluminum pots. This is particularly why people who make tomato sauces and other high acid liquids have avoided aluminum pots for years. Some people claim to be able to taste the difference when using an aluminum pot for wort. Some claim not to be able to. Some people may believe ingesting aluminum is dangerous. No proof has been given to support that yet. So, it is up to you to balance the potential for a metallic taste and/or possible other complications against the availability and cost difference in aluminum or stainless steel or ceramic. Most people seem to think that if you want a >20 quart pot, the ceramic crab pots are the cheapest deal of the three, anyway. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Thursday, 18 Oct 1990 07:44:21 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Too much sugar >Date: 17 Oct 90 08:14:06 PDT >From: stevef at sidd.SanDiego.NCR.COM >[last batch used 4 lb. of sugar] >This time I used only one lb of sugar and the result, so far, is >a very nice, hoppy brew. So my question is, why do these kits >call for so much sugar? As far as I know, the manufacturers want everyone to think it is *very cheap* to brew your own beer. Obviously, buying two cans of extract to get ~6-7 lbs of malt is much more expensive than buying one can and adding 4 lbs. of sugar. Perhaps they also think people only homebrew to get strong stuff cheap and don't care what it tastes like. The good news is that you can find more kits in cans that give reasonable all-malt recipes nowadays. Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Thursday, 18 Oct 1990 07:46:09 EST From: m14051 at mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo) Subject: Re: Drinking Fermented Fluids >From: William Mayne <mayne at nu.cs.fsu.edu> >>From: cjh%vallance.eng.ileaf.com at hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chip Hitchcock) >> >> I would guess that the original assumption was that beer, >>cider, and even wine would be widely brewed for home use or >>occasional barter (sometimes fermented fluids were the only >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>safe thing to drink), while stills (needing >>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>more effort & equipment) would produce liquor for sale... >I think your analysis of why distilling is illegal when brewing >and winemaking are not is correct. But I question this business >about alcoholic drinks being the only safe thing to drink. I >have heard it many times, mostly from tee-totaler >fundamentalists trying to explain the embarrassing fact that >almost everyone in the Bible drank wine, Jesus turned water into >wine, etc. I am surprised to hear it from (I assume) a fellow >drinker. Any alcoholic drink, especially one as strong as wine, >causes the body to use more water than the drink itself >provides. (This has been discussed at great length under the >subject of hangovers in rec.food.drink.) There is no way one can >live by substituting wine for unsafe but nonalcoholic drinks. I >expect the same would be true of beer, though I have never tried >it. 1) Wine and other strong drinks are often mixed with water because they are expensive, and still provide protection much greater than drinking plain water. 2) Nasty things simply won't grow in beer; something told to every new homebrewer who is afraid the beer will kill someone or make them seriously sick. 3) I personally lived for a long while on watered wine as my only drinking liquid (with occasional Coca Colas when I felt rich), while living in Spain. I imagine that it would be possible to have a diet such that you would need a non-alcoholic drink to get enough liquids, but I never came across such a situation in real life. In conclusion, I think it is fairly obvious that mildly alcoholic drinks (like beer, or like wine mixed with water) provide protection against nasty bugs and provide liquid sustenance as well. John "Doesn't mean you should overdo it, though" DeCarlo Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Usenet: at ... at !uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo Fidonet: 1:109/131 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 8:44:54 EDT From: davidson at hpanlr.an.hp.com Subject: Temperature controller, Lager questions (I am resending this as the first time (a couple days ago) I accidently sent it to requests instead of submissions - if it appears twice, sorry...) Not satisfied with the control on the refrigerator recently purchased, I decided it was time to buy another control that would more accurately achieve a stable temperature. I know there has been a lot of talk about the Hunter AIRSTAT so I looked into it. Comparing what I could find out about this control from past issues of HBD, as well as an inquiry to Gary Mason who recently purchased one, I decided that maybe the Honeywell controller described in Zymurgy, Fall 1989, would be more practical. The article, "Taming the Wild Fridge", mentions the part number Honeywell T6031A1029 with a price of roughly $45. That seems to be about the average price I've heard mentioned for the Hunter control. Looking under the controls section, the refrigeration section, and the electrical section of the yellow pages, I couldn't find anyone that carried such an item, of any kind (the only ones they had were meant for operation inside the fridge - to replace the existing one). I broke down and called Honeywell, (617) 969-0250, and spoke to someone in "Residential" that told me immediately where the closest place was that carried it - Energy Control Systems, Inc. in Woburn, MA. I called them and they gave me a price of $35.44 - probably contractors price since they asked me what company I was with so I told them. They had lots in stock so I went down at lunch and picked one up. It has a knob on the front that has a range of -30F to +90F and a knob on the inside from 3 to 16. The inside knob sets the differential and is set at 3 (they don't say whether that's +-3 or +-1.5). There are also three terminals that are used to have the power cord wired across - a common, an NC, and an NO. I took a spare extension cord, cut one wire and wired it up - it took about 4 minutes. I immediately installed it on my fridge that contained my first lager which I brewed on Sunday, and set the temperature. That's when the questions began. The notes on the Wyeast Munich Lager #2308 said to ferment at temperatures of 45-48 degrees. Well there seems to be about an 8-10 degree difference between the carboy and the glass of water I have about 6 inches away from the carboy. I decided to tape the thermocouple (which is on about a 3 foot wire) to the carboy (towards the bottom) and set the temp to 48. The temp of the fridge is now about 39 degrees. I am assuming that as the fermentation nears completion, this difference will approach zero. Is this correct? In summary of the control, assuming the temperature control is accurate, I am very satisfied with the controller and would recommend it over the Hunter control - this of course is done never seeing the Hunter control, only reading about it. The fact that it only went down to 40 degrees was unsatisfactory and indicated to me that it was intended more for controlling the temperature in your home and not in a refrigerator. The notes on the yeast suggested that a temperature of 45-48 degrees be maintained for the first 2/3 to 3/4 of the fermentation and end at 60-65 degrees. When is 2/3 to 3/4 of the fermentation? Is this a fraction of the total time, or is it a fraction of the drop in specific gravity? It also says to "chill to the 30s for a day before separating from the lees." Is this a day before racking, which I'll probably do around the 6th day, or is it a day before bottling, which I'll probably do around the 20th day? I probably should have broken this up into two postings, but what's done is done... Marc - -- Marc Davidson hp-and!davidson Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 09:44 EST From: <R_GELINA%UNHH.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (Russ Gelinas) Subject: Manchester brewers Hey Chuck, I agree with you that Manchester, NH (the proposed site of the AHA national conference?) has no brewpubs and no good bars (and really nothing at all to offer in general), BUT it does have homebrewers. I'm one, and I know others. So if the conference *is* in Manchester, I'll be at it (although I rather not have to pay anything *:-). Homebrewers (like Elvis) are everywhere! Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 08:56:08 -0500 From: zentner at ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner) Subject: Automash Has anyone found out about or used the Automash I see advertised in Zymurgy? What's the general opinion of this thing? I've never seen it and have no idea what it costs. Mike Zentner zentner at cn.ecn.purdue.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 11:16:24 MDT From: hopper at chtm.unm.edu (An-shyang Chu) Subject: carboys Why even chance it? HBD #516 : My 7 gallon carboys came with a sulfuric acid label still attached. I assume that they are refuse from the local electronics manufacturering. Although they seem perfectly clean when I get them, I fill...... We went out to our water-bottled company and got some 5-gallon carboys for $10 a piece. Just look under "water-bottled & bulk" in the yellow pages. I did not ask them if they have 7-gallon jobs, but $10 is $10. Happy brewing, Hopper Chu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 13:15:28 CDT From: tking at ux.acs.umn.edu Subject: Date sugar for brewing? My roommate and I have just taken up homebrewing. We are working on our fourth batch of brew, and have been fairly successful. I have a question: Has anybody brewed using date sugar? Papazian says he hasn't tried it, but that it would work. The question is, if you boil and sparge it, will it lend enough sugar to the wort to ferment? Also, does date sugar contain pectin and should I avoid boiling it? Thanks in advance... Tim King tking at ux.acs.umn.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 90 13:29:29 mdt From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) Subject: re: Rolling Rock and aftertastes >Has anyone had similar experiences with the flavor of one beer >radically modifying the flavor of another tasted later? Why yes, Tom, now that you mention it, I have experienced something similar. A few weeks ago, my cousin, Linas, and I tried a variety of beers in a (sort of) double-blind taste test. The reason I say "sort of" is because, although I knew what beers were in the sample, I labeled them with numbers on the glasses and then pseudo-randomized the beers (I put the dark beers at the end). I wanted to try this test because of Florian's praise of Budweiser a few weeks ago. The beers we tasted were: Budweiser, Miller Lite, Falstaff, Hacker Pschorr Pilsner, Pilsner Urquell, Sam Smith's Old Brewery Pale Ale, McEwan's Scotch Ale, and one more beer that I can't remember. The test was primarily for drinkability because you cannot compare a Scotch Ale with a Pilsner. I have to disagree with you Florian -- I hated the Bud. In fact, both of us ranked the Bud, Lite, and Falstaff in the 1, 2 or 3 (out of 10) range and the others were in the 6 to 9 range. I wansn't going to post results of this taste test (because it was very un-scientific and the data was not suprising) but all this talk of taste interactions reminded me of one strange data point in our test. I like ales. However, I scored the SS OB Pale Ale as a 0 -- undrinkable. It tasted so salty, that I was repulsed. I know, I know, it's the water in England. I tasted the SS Pale on another occasion and I thought it was fine (I like their Brown Ale and Newcastle Brown much better). With the idea of taste interactions in mind, I realize now what must have happened. In fact, all the beers tasted different from the first sip, to the second, to the third. I think that we will try the test again with unsalted crackers and water between beers. Al. Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Oct 90 14:46:19 EDT From: Jay Hersh <75140.350 at compuserve.com> Subject: AHA Competition Re; Steve Dempsey's comments. Steve I had heard that was over 2000 bottles, not entries (at 3 bottles per entry) and therefor ~700 entries for the first round. Certainly no small task. I have experience with a local competition of ~70 entries we did that in one day. The AHA has tried to space the first round out over a few weeks. Still all in all I think they should have called for help sooner, as they now seem to be doing with the proposed 3 regions for round 1. A suggestion for round 2. Perhaps giving a discount on the conference fee to people in the BJCP with the requirement that they work the 2nd round would help to boost attendance by Judges in the program. For the sake of humility I think the distribution of judging into various regions was an eventuality and I don't believe there was a cause-effect relationship between the past discussion (and any suggestions I may have put forth) and the apparent pending adoption of part of this structure. Steve D. says >If you want to see the situation improve, become a judge and help recruit >judges who will take their job as seriously as you take your brewing. Kudos!! Steve I believe that training you spoke of is only available in your area, and at the national conference, which only hit the road last year. For those in other locales it is strictly a do-it-yourself-if-you-can arrangement. P.S. I can't find me Norm Hardy Germany Part 1. I tried contacting Norm directly but have received no reply. Can anyone forward (maybe you Norm) this since I want to keep these excellent notes for my long planned, often postponed trip to Munich, Prague, and Vienna Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Oct 90 11:23:11 EDT (Thursday) From: dw <wegeng at arisia.xerox.com> Subject: Re: Yeast in mead There's no reason why healthy yeast will suddenly start fermenting more quickly, unless something else changed. Did the air temperature change (it did here in Rochester)? However, it sounds to me like your yeast isn't very healthy. Our batches of mead have always bubbled pretty fast (as you say, like "a beer primary fermentation"). Did you add yeast nutrients with the yeast? Acid blend? BTW, we're trying out a liquid mead yeast culture in our current batch. It's made by "meV." We've been pretty happy with their beer yeast cultures. It'll be a few months before we know how it turns out, but right now it's fermenting quite nicely. /Don Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Oct 90 11:23:11 EDT (Thursday) From: dw <wegeng at arisia.xerox.com> Subject: Re: Yeast in mead There's no reason why healthy yeast will suddenly start fermenting more quickly, unless something else changed. Did the air temperature change (it did here in Rochester)? However, it sounds to me like your yeast isn't very healthy. Our batches of mead have always bubbled pretty fast (as you say, like "a beer primary fermentation"). Did you add yeast nutrients with the yeast? Acid blend? BTW, we're trying out a liquid mead yeast culture in our current batch. It's made by "meV." We've been pretty happy with their beer yeast cultures. It'll be a few months before we know how it turns out, but right now it's fermenting quite nicely. /Don Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #521, 10/19/90 ************************************* -------
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