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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Re: Wine in a can ("Donald L. Wegeng")
  Re:  Wine in a Can (bostech!loc)
  List of hops (Eric Pepke)
  Oak chips (Russell Greenlee)
  Oak Chips (Ted Manahan)
  chilling wort... (Russell Greenlee)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #540 (November 20, 1990) (Michael J. Tuciarone)
  Free champagne bottles (Dan Needham)
  Old Breweries (KXR11)
  Trub and Yeast (Don McDaniel)
  siphoning wort into the primary (mage!lou)
  Doohickey for Electric Drill (Brian Capouch)
  Report on No. 17 (John S. Watson - FSC)


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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 05:39:10 -0800
>From: "Donald L. Wegeng" <wegeng at arisia.Xerox.COM>
Subject: Re: Wine in a can

>Has anyone ever made wine from the cans occasionally found next to the
>malt extracts in the homebrew section of your local grocer?

Yes, but not any more (since I can readily get good grape juice from local
sources).  These "cans" are the winemaker's analogy to cans of malt extract,
and contain concentrated grape juice (similar to the concentrated barley juice
that we homebrewers buy).  It's not as good, in general, as using fresh grapes
or fresh grape juice.

One difference, though, is that it's much more difficult to ship grapes or
grape juice than barley, so depending on where you live you may find that
your results from using grape juice concentrate will be similar, if not
better than you would have from using grapes or grape juice.  If you live
near a wine producing region, however, you'll probably have better luck
by using grapes of grape juice.

/Don

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 09:50:46 EST
>From: bostech!bostech!loc at ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re:  Wine in a Can

Joe Uknalis asks about the wine concentrates found next to malt extracts
in the store.  They make good wine.  The biggest difference with them is 
that the wine does not develop the bouquet of wine made from grapes directly,
this is due to the skins not being present.  But we have made very drinkable
wines using the concentrates.  I have even hear of people using as many as
four cans of concentrate in one 5 gal. batch to build a really full bodied
wine.(reds especially)  The thing to watch out for is some of the can products
that say they are 3 or 6 week wines will use apple juice to speed the
fermentation process.  The use of the apple does effect the quality of the 
end product however.(as with the rest of life I guess there are trade-offs
everywhere)  Give it a try, but expect to let the wine mature in the bottle
at least 6 months for whites and 1 year for reds before drinking.  Yes 
the wine is drinkable before that time, but as with any high alcohol product
time is the big key maturation.

Enjoy,
Roger Locniskar  
Gi

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Date:    Tue, 20 Nov 1990 10:16:52 EST
>From: PEPKE at SCRI1.SCRI.FSU.EDU (Eric Pepke)
Subject: List of hops

Sparky asks about hops.

A partial list can be found in _Beer Kits and Brewing_ by Dave Line.  It lists
most of the commonly used hops, gives the alpha acidity, and very briefly 
touches on the flavor characteristics and the kinds of beers that use each
kind.

Eric Pepke                                     INTERNET: pepke at gw.scri.fsu.edu
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute  MFENET:   pepke at fsu
Florida State University                       SPAN:     scri::pepke
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052                     BITNET:   pepke at fsu

Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions.
Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 08:28:48 MST
>From: Russell Greenlee <russell at oakley.uswest.com>
Subject: Oak chips


Re: oak chips. I have used oak chips in my IPAs (half a dozen batches
so far) with no problems. They impart a woody flavor to the brew that
I enjoy. I don't know how authentic my IPAs are, but taste good, so
I'm happy ;-). 

Here is my procedure. I use as much as will easily fit in my tightly
clenched fist (probably about 2 - 3 tablespoons). The chips are
sanitized as suggested by Papazian in TCJOHB, i.e. they are steamed or
boiled for about 5 minutes. I just dump the chips and "tea" right into
the secondary. One caution about boiling/steaming. Oak chips soak up a
lot of water, so it is easy to start out with a tea and end up with a
scorched pan in just a few minutes. Learn from my mistakes and use
plenty of water, or pre soak the chips and add water before starting
the boil. Based on previous comments I speculate that my satisfaction
with this technique is due to using small quantities, and to adding
the chips to the secondary (as opposed to the boil).

Russell Greenlee
russell at uswest.com

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 08:12:51 pst
>From: Ted Manahan <tedm at hpcvcbp.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Oak Chips
Full-Name: Ted Manahan

Here's some text from a "William's Brewing" Catalog concerning oak
chips. 

They recommend 3 days of primary fermentation, then transfer to
secondary. Sterilize the oak chips by steaming them in a vegetable
steamer for 20 minutes, and adding the oak to the secondary. Seal the
secondary and leave for 7 to 9 days before checking for final gravity
and bottling.

Adding oak barrel chips to the secondary is safer than adding the chips
to the primary fermenter, as even 20 minutes of steaming in a vegetable
cooker may not kill all bacteria, and wort is less susceptible to
contamination after it has partially fermented.

Use 2 to 8 oz. of oak chips per 5 gallons, 2 oz. for a very light accent,
and 8 oz. for a pronounced oak flavor. The longer the oak is in contact
with beer, the heavier the flavor, so use 35% less chips if you plan to
bulk age the beer in contact with oak for a month or more.

Ted (believe everything I read) Manahan
tedm at hpcvca.cv.hp.com

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 09:36:26 MST
>From: Russell Greenlee <russell at oakley.uswest.com>
Subject: chilling wort...


I am attempting to quickly cool my hot wort to the low 30s (F) as
recommended by Miller and Noonan. I have a counter flow chiller (yes I
am aware of the trade offs) that chills boiling wort to tap water
temperature (50 - 60F). I have tried running the cooled wort through
another 18 feet of 1/4 ID copper tubing immersed in an ice bath with
limited success (i.e. a 5 degree temp. drop at reasonable flow rates).
My next experiment is to try using rock salt on the ice to lower its
melting point and thereby increasing the temperature difference
between the wort and the cooling bath. Has anyone out there come up
with a technique for quickly chilling wort to around freezing?

Russell Greenlee
russell at uswest.com



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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 09:24:16 PST
>From: tooch at mongoose.Eng.Sun.COM (Michael J. Tuciarone)
Subject: Re:  Homebrew Digest #540 (November 20, 1990)

> hsfmsh.UUCP!suurb at cgl.ucsf.EDU (Dave Suurballe) writes:
>
> CO2 pressure is one of the three big hazards in a brewery.

OK, so what are the other two? Hot wort? Slippery floors? Ruptured
tanks? Broken glass? Bottling machines? Nagging "yeast" infections?

t

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 09:55:04 pst
>From: Dan Needham <dann at hpsadlb.hp.com>
Subject: Free champagne bottles
Full-Name: Dan Needham

I recently received about 12 cases of champagne bottles.  This is more
than I can use or store.  Some have labels still on them and some have
already been cleaned up.  I live near Santa Rosa, CA.  If any of you
live in or will be driving to Sonoma County and want some of these
please e-mail me at dann at hpsad.hp.com --or--
...<hubsite>!hplabs!hpsad!dann.  I need some garage space soon, so I'll
recycle what doesn't get picked up in the next few weeks.  



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Date:    Tue, 20 Nov 90 13:37 EST
>From: KXR11 at PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Old Breweries


** I sent this article about a week ago, but it apparently got
** trashed in transit.

Has anybody heard of a beer called Weihenstephan?  I was looking at
a coaster from the brewery.  It read (translations added using my
limited knowledge of deutsch):

                 Weihenstephan  seit 1040
                              (since 1040)
                   Alteste Bier der Welt
                (Oldest beer in the world)

It's a helles beer brewed by nuns in Freising, Germany (near
Munich).  My one report on the stuff says it's not real great.
Rather, not real great as german beers go.  With as many people who
have gone to Germany, has anyone tasted it?  I haven't tried the
brew, but I find it pretty impressive -- a brewery that's been
around for nearly one thousand years.

Speaking of old breweries.  I was watching CNN a number of days ago
and heard something about the remains of an ancient brewery being
discovered in Egypt.  The archaeologists believe the site dates
back around 6000 B.C.  We homebrewers have a long history behind
us!

                                           Eric

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 12:50:28 MST
>From: dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu (Don McDaniel)
Subject: Trub and Yeast

First, please pardon the null post from yesterday.  I'm still
new at this e-mail business.

Now, I'm looking for some advice/opinions on the matter of
racking off the trub.

I just brewed my fourth batch yesterday, a partial mash.  I've
developed my procedure through my (limited) experience and
frequent reference to Miller's book.  Among other things, Miller
stresses the importance of removing the trub after it is has
settled out and of employing a high pitching rate in order to
minimize the lag time.  The latter is easier on the nerves as well
as safer for the wort (reducing the risk of contamination).

So anyway, yesterday I cooled my wort (with an immersion chiller),
racked it into the carboy allowing maximum aeration, and pitched
a thoroughly activated yeast.  This morning I went down to the cellar
to rack the wort off of the trub and into my primary.  So far, so
good.  There was a bit of krausen in the neck of the carboy and the
fermentation lock was bubbling merrily.  I performed the transfer and
went off to work.  I just got home and went down to have a look.
There's
absolutely no pressure in the fermenter.  The water level is the same
on both sides of the fermentation lock.  I concluded that I left most
of the yeast behind this morning and my little colony will have to
start all over again.  This of course negates the care I took to
employ a high pitching rate.  Of course I'm not WORRIED.  I'm sure
the little yeasties will catch on again.  

I am disturbed (I'm trying to do everything right!).  How can I rack
the wort off the trub without leaving the (ale) yeast behind.  If
I can't have it both ways, which is more important, the trub
or a fast yeast takeoff?

Miller says he chills to just above freezing, allows it to warm to
fermentation temp overnight, then racks and pitches.  Sounds good to
me but I have no way to chill to 35 F, and I don't like the idea of 
leaving wort sitting around at 60-70 F without yeast.

Yours in Confusion,

Don McDaniel           dinsdale at chtm.unm.edu


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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 15:54:35 MST
>From: hplabs!mage!lou
Subject: siphoning wort into the primary

In HBD #539 Kinney Baughman describes a method he developed to siphon wort from
the kettle to the primary so as to leave the trub behind in the kettle.  Stated
briefly, it involves wrapping a copper wound pot scrubber around the end of a
siphoning cane and covering it with a hops bag to filter out the trub.

This sounds like an excellent technique but I would like to suggest a
modification.  The copper pot scrubber could scratch a plastic siphoning tube
and create a place for infections to grow that are virtually impossible to
sanitize.  I suggest that a plastic pot scrubber might be a better choice here.

Louis Clark
reply to: mage!lou at ncar.ucar.edu


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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 19:06:05 -0600 (CST)
>From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU>
Subject: Doohickey for Electric Drill

I have heard reference before of an adapter that hooks onto the chuck
end of a 1/4" electric drill, and serves to attach it to a grain mill.

Do any of you folks out there know of such a gadget, and if so, where I
could come by one? 

Thanks

Brian Capouch
Saint Joseph's College
brianc at saintjoe.edu

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Date: Tue, 20 Nov 90 23:16:40 PST
>From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson at pioneer.arc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Report on No. 17

Last Oct 1, in the Homebrew digest #508, 
I asked if anyone had any experience in brewing
with a cheap malt-rice product, which  I found readily available 
in local oriental markets. 

I wanted to see if Maltose was useful in homebrewing,
since one seemed to have used it, I decide to try it myself.

The resulting was a very light "American style" beer.
It was better tasting than any A.S. beer I'd pick up at the local market,
but maybe not quite as good as an A.S. beer I'd get at the local microbrewery.

Below are the notes taken form my brewing log book.

Batch #17  

10/21/90

Cooking the Wort.

  3.25# Plain Light Malt Extract ($5.93) 
  2.2#  Maltose  (1000 grams, $1.98) 
  0.75oz Cascade Hops (Boil, pellets, $0.66)
  0.75oz Cascade Hops (Finish, pellets, last 2 minutes, $0.66)
  Yeast - Cultured from 2 bottles of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
        Started 2 days earlier
  5 gallons tap water.  
    (2.5 gallons in wort and 2.5 gallons boiled and cooled earlier.)

  S.P = 1.033  at  113 degrees F
        1.038  at   76 degrees F

  Placed in 2.5 gallons of wort into 7 gallon carboy 
  with 2.5 gallons pre-cooled water.

10/22/90
 
  Next day (Monday) 12:00 noon,
  Cultured yeast does not seem to start, So added
  
1 package (0.25oz) Vierrka German Lager Yeast ($0.95)
  
  Because of cooling, it looks like some sanatized water 
  was sucked in from the spill bottle.  Can't tell how much.
  (At this point I was a somewhat discouraged, I figured the
  batch was ruined. But I relaxed, since I'd only be out 
  about $10 if it was. )
  
     
10/28/90

Secondary Fermenter.

  Slow fermentation over the week.  Still fermenting
  at time of secondary, but slowly - Some "head" of foam still
  on top of primary.

  S.G.= 1.007  at  67 degrees F

11/4/90

Bottling.
 
  added 3/4 cups corn sugar

  S.P = 1.006  at  62 degrees F
  
  approx. 4.5% alc. by volume

  tastes great. (less filling! :-).

  49 12oz bottles (588oz) 
  Capped with Green #17 sticker

  Total cost for 49 bottles was approx $11.00 US dollars.
  Which is about 22 cents per beer.  No taxes :-)


11/11/90

  Tried a few bottles.  Not enough carbonation yet.
  Still tastes great.  

  Color similar to any American Pilsner, like Budwiser.
  Tastes much better, very mellow,  no "skunkiness".

11/17/90

  Still not carbonated enough, although more than 
  last week.  Hopefully another week.



New techniques used this time:

* Attempted to culture the yeast from bottle.  
  Many reasons why this might not have worked.  
  Most likely that 2 days was not enough to culture yeast,
  and wort might have been to hot.
  
* Used all tap water.  2.5 gallons early boiled Sunday morning and
  placed in the freezer to cool.  (Should have done it the evening
  before. Wasn't cool enough.) (Previously I've always bought 3 gallons
  of bottled water and let it cool in the freezer while the rest 
  of the wort was boiling. The near freezing water and the boiled wort
  would combine at about 80 degrees)

* Washed bottles in dish washer.  Saved lots of time, and work. 

* Used approx.  2 pounds of "Maltose", a rice-malt product 
  which cost 99 cents for 17.5 oz (500 grams).
  Papazain book says American Pilsners are from 25 to 40 percent
  of this.   No. 17 is about 40%.


The goal was to make a 5 gallon batch of beer,
while only spending 10 dollars.  I'm not sure what drives
me to such frugalness.  I can easly afford the extra 2 dollars or so
it would cost me to use 100% malt extract.  (My last brew of Russian
Imperial Stout cost at lest $26.)

Also, having grown up with American beer, 
sometimes I would rather have it with certain foods, such as pizza. 

And maybe I did it just so I could say "I did it".

John S. Watson, Civil Servant from Hell    ARPA: watson at ames.arc.nasa.gov 
                                           UUCP: ...!ames!watson
Homebrew Naked!

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #541, 11/21/90
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