HOMEBREW Digest #591 Thu 07 March 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Stuff Happens (Rob Gardner)
  suppliers needed (Seismo Malm)
  info about suppliers (Seismo Malm)
  Brew in Knoxville, TN? ("Gary Mason - I/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503  06-Mar-1991 0724")
  Brewpub Selection (Ron Rader)
  Travelling with and for beer (John Bates)
  Fischer 36//15 (mcnally)
  Brewpub marketing (flowers)
  Re: Weird Beer? (Chris Shenton)
  beer-drinking women (Dick Dunn)
  traveling w/homebrew (Stephen Russell)
  &*$# at  bottling wand, mead (Carl West x4449)
  Mead *re*starts fermenting! (Chris Shenton)
  Garlic Beer from TCJOHB (Speaker-To-Bankers)
  Premier Malt Extract (Darren Evans-Young)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #590 (March 06, 1991) (Brian Capouch)

Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi at hplabs.hp.com [Please do not send me requests for back issues] Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Today, Mountain Time From: rdg at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Rob Gardner) Subject: Stuff Happens I've been getting lots of messages complaining of missing digests, erratic service, etc. Please keep in mind that most of the problems you are likely to encounter are not under my control, and so I cannot do very much to help. If you sporadically miss digests, it is unlikely to be a problem at this end, but is probably some sort of network thing. Consider the possibility that your address on my list is unreliable, and perhaps send an alternative. If you stop getting digests completely, then it probably means that mail to your address has been bouncing, so I've removed your address from the mailing list. In that case, it is necessary to resubscribe with a hopefully better address. Remember that I don't have infinite time to figure out various mail problems, and I am very likely to blow away any address from the list that is costing time to babysit. I'll try to keep the archives up to date for back issues; Please do not send me requests for back issues, as I generally delete these immediately without responding. Sorry to be taking this position, but it's just impossible to personally reply to every message that comes in. My primary goal is to keep network traffic here to a minimum, since I've already had several nasty encounters with bean counters, auditors, and administrators, and the digest has had a few scrapes with death. So please try to make things easier for me here, and be more toleratant of the ocassional glitch. Having said all this, remember to relax and don't worry. I'm doing my best to keep the digests going out regularly in spite of stormy weather. Thanks for all your patience and support! Rob, your humble and busy publisher Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 11:23:38 +0200 From: Seismo Malm <Seismo.Malm at jyu.fi> Subject: suppliers needed Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 11:49:19 +0200 From: Seismo Malm <Seismo.Malm at jyu.fi> Subject: info about suppliers Sorry about previous null message. here is the original. A friend of mine has a homewine(/homebrew) shop here in Finland. When I told him about homebrewing equipment availlable in USA he thought that there would probably be very many finnish homebrewers wanting to purchase cornelius kegs for example. He asked me to post a request to diggest about adresses of posible supliers. here are the main interests 1) cornelius kegs 2) hop extracts 3) good quality yeasts If you could mail info to me, I would be very gratefull. (a sidenote: a 330 ml botle of beer costs about 1.5 to 3 US$ here in shops and about 6- US$ in restaurants) sm at tukki.jyu.fi (seismo malm) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 04:21:08 PST From: "Gary Mason - I/V PCU - 603-884[DTN264]1503 06-Mar-1991 0724" <mason at habs11.enet.dec.com> Subject: Brew in Knoxville, TN? Any recommendations for brewpubs/beerpubs in Knoxville? Cheers...Gary Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 10:29:41 EST From: rlr at bbt.com (Ron Rader) Subject: Brewpub Selection Mark Stevens speaks... > In my various brewpub travels, I've found no brewpubs that specifically > brew a diet beer, although a sensible approach was taken by the Vermont > Brewing Co. in Burlington VT. They offer a diet beer, but they make it on > the spot by mixing 1/2 club soda and 1/2 the beer of your choice. This is a clever idea, one I haven't seen before. > however, I can't really give the Blue Ridge [Brewing Co. in Charlottesville > VA] high marks overall because they also sell Bud and > Bud Light---the most heinous of sins for a brewpub---makes it seem like > they talk quality when it suits them, but when there's a buck to be > made, they'll gladly pump more piss than a Roto-Rooter man. Can't agree with you here, Mark. If this helps a brewpub stay in business, I'm perfectly content. There aren't a whole lot of people willing to spend $5 per beer for a night of drinking. If the Bud sales partially subsidize the in-house brews, that's even better (doubtful though). Personally, I'll drink swill beer to save cash from time to time, allowing me to sample more good beers. As far as wine sales go, I don't have much of an opinion, since I am not much of a wine drinker. A good idea if it helps the brewpub stay in business. The yups seem to drink alotta wine at brewpubs ;) . My personal preferences run towards more traditional slum bars, with stages and sawdust on the floors. Bands nightly! Even better if there's an addi- tional quiet room to relax and taste the in-house brews. Although I like brewpubs, I find that the um, more yupscale ones get a little too boring on repeated visits. - -- ron rader, jr rlr at bbt.com OR ...!mcnc!bbt!rlr = Opinions are my own and do | | i gotta six-pack & nothing to do... = not necessarily reflect those | | i gotta six-pack & i don't need you = of BroadBand Tech. (SO THERE!) *** Punk ain't no religious cult, punk means thinking for yourself - DKs *** Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 09:12:09 MST From: bates at bjerknes.Colorado.EDU (John Bates) Subject: Travelling with and for beer I posted my only experience with shipping beer UPS before the holidays. UPS had completely shashed my shipment (probably dropped a 50 lb box on it) and they said tough, no apology no refund, nada. I talked to the AHA about this and they assured me they use UPS all the time to ship beers to tastings but did suggest you not identify it as beer. Someone was writing an article on this for Zymurgy, but it has not been published yet. They hinted that Papazian had written to UPS and gotten an OK, but I asked for a copy and have yet to see anything official. This suggests there is no uniform UPS policy on this and you take your chances with whomever you happen to deal with at UPS. Undaunted, I packed a couple of homebrews in a nice box and carried it on the plane for my holiday travels. I had no hassle as it went through the X-ray. Others on the Digest have reported mostly similar experiences, with an occasional hassle, but Federal law says it's OK. I would caution putting homebrew in the check-in luggage, I just don't trust the temperature/pressure changes that occur in the cargo hold. John Bates (Normans evil twin...) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 91 08:12:30 PST From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: Fischer 36//15 Unless you are a member of a different species than I am, I can guarantee that you will *not* enjoy 36//15. It is, briefly, disgusting. Not just hard to enjoy---like, for example, German Rauchbier---but really awful. Why any brewer would go to the trouble of brewing a beer with so many bizarre ingredients can only be explained as a freakish marketing experiment. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1991 10:27:59 -0600 From: flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu Subject: Brewpub marketing This thread is very interesting to me as I was very near (and still trying) to being a brewpub owner. First I'd like to say that Jeff (the person planning the dream brewpub) doesn't need conjectures or perceptions, he needs facts. For example: > From a very small sample of friends, my suspicion is that..... This is somewhat useful as it states the source of the data and clearly states that a conclusion was DRAWN. Statements such as: >some marketing types think...... and >many women probably get the impression.... are useful only when considering the source. Is he an expert in the field? If not, what are his sources for this information? There are hundreds, nay, thousands of reports of studies conducted to answer questions such as, who drinks beer, where do they drink it, what attracts them to a paticular product, etc. Many of these reports and findings can be found in industry magazines and marketing magazines and reference books. Judgements based on facts lead to business success. Guesses often fail. As for marketing a beer or beverage toward women: this is an extremely good idea and nearly essential. Chip wrote recently: > Sometimes some parts of a group >don't want alcohol and don't want soda/tonic/pop; fruit juice straight or >with plain seltzer is getting popular. This is very true and supported by industry trends as reported in The New Brewer (published by the Institute for Brewing Studies)(volume and number not handy but available). Offering an 'off' beverage (meaning not the main staple which is beer) is a way of marketing a product to the non primary sales audience. As it happens, many maketing studies are described demographically with sex being a major division. Therefore reports may state that women drink less beer. The response is to market a product (or special beer) towards women. Now we all know (and Stacey pointed out recently) that MANY women LIKE beer. It's just that women are the largest targetable group from the population of those who drink less beer (under the per capita average consumtion say). There are many ways to market a beer towards women (or the lighter beer drinkers in general). Some would be change the taste and ingredients of a beer, special advertising of an existing product, use a paticular name, lighten the aftertaste, etc. There are probably hundreds of ways, some admittedly better than others. You would probably want to pick a marketing plan that would encompass the WHOLE target population, not JUST women. "Lite" as part of the name, does this well. Mark Stevens writes: > I >also believe that no brewpub should *EVER* sell a beer made by an >industrial brewer and that, in general, they should NOT brew diet (aka, "light") >beers. Why is there a problem about brewing 'diet' beers? Your in business to make money and if you can justify brewing it with potential new sales, why not do it? Without looking at any demographics about dieting people, I have observed the many advertising campaigns for Slim-Fast (spokesperson: Tommy Lasorda), Weight Watcher's (Lynn Redgrave) and other such products. This would indicate to me that there is a large targetable population out there that I may be able to sell beer to. >They offer a diet beer, but they make it on >the spot by mixing 1/2 club soda and 1/2 the beer of your choice. This >lets you pick the flavor of beer, or even try a variety, albeit in a >watered down version---this still results in a better drink with more >flavor than any of the commercial diet beers. In your opinion it's better. This also sounds like a very good way to reach someone who wants a lighter beer. It sounds like a good marketing idea. >An even better solution >might be to promote a beer with 1/3 fewer calories...but instead of >a watered down beer, you get a 9 ounce glass instead of a 12 ounce glass. This sounds like a rotten idea. I believe, (again without the benifit of demographics) that dieters would want to consume the same amount of substance without the same caloric intake. They may just end up ordering more 9oz glasses than they would 12 oz. Essentially your saying, if you want less calories, just drink (and eat) less. Chances are, if someone is on a diet, they may already be having problems controlling their amount of intake. They may percieve a 9oz glass as a rip-off. >....I can't really >give the Blue Ridge high marks overall because they also sell Bud and >Bud Light---the most heinous of sins for a brewpub.... If you were REALLY interested in quality yourself, you wouldn't judge a place on what they sell but on the quality of the product they make. Consider all the people drinking Bud and Bud Lite as subsidisizing the quality beer in your hand. Also, try to introduce a Bud drinker to the homemade product. Most places (this can be backed up) will make more money per serving of their beer than per Bud. The problem of profit comes in when you can't sell enough of your own product when it is the only one offered. >The key is not to insult educated >consumers with hokey names and silly gimmicks. HOKEY names and SILLY gimmicks are indeed a bad idea, however, using a name or gimmick to sell a product is the way of business. Just watch a few TV commercials to find that out. Consider that a potential investor in your brewpub will consider beer brewed on the premises as just a gimmick to get people from other bars, to your bar. I do not believe there are many brewpubs out there just to raise the American consciousness of good beer. They want to make money and brewing your own beer brings people in. That's why you'll see many brewpubs that are 'in'. Do you really believe ALL those people are beer connoisseurs like the people of this digest? To be sure, there are few of us, but people (the average Joe and Jane) are starting to appreciate good beer. That is why the brewpub craze is not a fad as many investors believed in the early going. My apologies about the length of this post. -Craig A HBD subsriber since #444 (flowers at csrd.uiuc.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 12:00:38 EST From: Chris Shenton <chris at endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: Weird Beer? >>>>> On Tue, 5 Mar 1991 9:10:53 EST, TSAMSEL at ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV said: > Whats the story on Fischer's new designer brew 35//19? (I think that's > what it's called) At $8.00 a 3-pak, its pricey. I don't like it. It's being marketed as the world's first aphrodisiac beer, complete with sci-fi phallic-symbol packaging. Weird mix of fruits and spices. 33//19 is supposedly the conference number of a ISO/sex phone conference on the Paris/French phone computer thing. [No flames, please -- This is what the marketing guy said...] Return to table of contents
Date: 5 Mar 91 21:01:18 MST (Tue) From: ico.isc.com!rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) Subject: beer-drinking women (I should get Diane to post her views on this herself, but she's busy and traveling. Besides, I'm right here at the console, and isn't that what husbands are for...to be barefoot and programming?:-) My best guess is that the supposed tendency for women not to like beer is something that's been marketed into place. If the marketing for real beer appeals to the macho image, you've got a problem trying to market the same product to women, because the images clash. Diane grew up in England, then moved to the US. Overall, she's pretty independent, and her tastes are eclectic, which accounts for some of her preferences, but still I think the Briton in her has substantial influence. Her beer preferences are roughly: barleywine (ours, Bigfoot, Old Foghorn, Hardy's) doppelbock (Salvator in particular, and an occasional Samichlaus or EKU 28) stouts (homebrew, Tooth's Sheaf, SN, Mackeson) and Anchor Porter bitter and west-coast-ale style (SN Pale Ale, Anchor Liberty, etc) ...with the obvious seasonal shifts, and of course mead/melomel factored in wherever possible... What's more, she's able to convince women friends to give these a try... and as often as not, they like them! I think the stereotype "women like light beers" is WORSE than a marketed misconception. It may serve Schlud- willer well, especially since their "lite" products are cheaper to make, but I don't see any substance to it. You could just as easily argue the mis-generalization "women don't like beer" on the basis that they avoid it because the US mass-marketed stuff is insipid. (and yes, we're both involved in our brewing...although there are certain procedures for which she claims only men have the required expertise, such as washing bottles.:-) --- Dick Dunn rcd at raven.eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 13:25:05 -0500 From: srussell at snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell) Subject: traveling w/homebrew Bill Thacker in #590 wanted to know about traveling on commercial aircraft with homebrew. I have always carried on homemade beer in a case or 1/2 case and placed it under the seat in front of me. 1/2 cases seem to fit best for obvious reasons. When I go through the security/X-ray check and they ask me what it is I just say "beer". Never had any problems. However, the last time I did this was in early January, i.e., before Desert Storm, so if security has tightened, this may no longer be possible. As far as packing it in luggage, JUST SAY NO! For one thing, glass bottles are susceptible to breaking in luggage. I have had it happen to me (Kahlua, not beer). Yuck! For another, homebrew is sensitive to bottle conditioning more so than any other alcoholic beverage I know of. Going topsy-turvy, sideways, rearways, and upside-down ways won't help the beer flavor/clarity/ color/aroma any. Anyhow, the airlines always recommend against putting glass in luggage and are not liable for damages when your glass breaks. By the way, people carry on wine bottles all the time; wineries often sell travel cases (cardboard, usually) to facilitate this. So in principle, if someone at a security check gave you trouble, you could appeal to their common sense. The only thing airline types seem to get anal about is the whole "fitting under the seat in front of you" idea. There are overhead racks, too, I guess! ON ANOTHER NOTE......I'm still looking for brewers in Central New York, especially Ithaca, that are receiving this newsletter. Please send me e-mail or give me a call (Steve at 273-7306 eves, 255-4648 days); I would like very much to exchange beers and information locally. Steve Russell Cornell Department of Materials Science Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 12:25:42 EST From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449) Subject: &*$# at bottling wand, mead Last night I was bottling a gallon batch of mead* using that most marvelous of inventions, the bottling wand. All was going well until the orange plastic valve assembly dropped off the wand into the bottle I was filling. When I pulled the wand from the bottle, Surprise! mead all over the floor. When I lost the siphon, a hose-full of mead whooshed back into the carboy and stirred up a bunch of sediment. at *&%$&*%! I'm tempted to glue the bloody thing together, but I fear that doing so will make the wand nearly impossible to clean thoroughly. Perhaps there is a better designed bottling wand available? Oh, another feature, if you boil the plastic tube it may well end up looking like a shilelagh, I know :^) -Carl * I'm very happy with the mead, it is a very simple recipe: 1 gallon bottled water (I don't really trust our tap water) 2# generic honey zest and juice of one medium lemon simmer these together and skim off the scum *as*it*rises* (if you wait for it all to rise so you can skim just once and you miss the moment, the scum sinks, never to rise again) I pitched directly into the wort/must (what is it when you're making mead?): 1/4tsp Red Star Champagne yeast and kept it at room temp (65-72) for 5 weeks where it bubbled about once every 5 seconds for the whole time. In fact it was still going when I bottled, yes, I plan to begin drinking it soon, before it becomes a grenade six-pack. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 16:12:18 EST From: Chris Shenton <chris at asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Mead *re*starts fermenting! I have a cranberry mead which has been fermenting now for about 3 months. It's been very slow the past 6 weeks or so, which is natural. Yesterday, it started fermenting somewhat vigorously again, pushing some fruit pulp into the airlock and generally making a mess. Should I assume this batch has recently become contaminated? It tastes fine - -- clean, *very* alcoholic, and rather tart (due to the honey fermenting out). What can I do to save it? Toss in a Campden tablet to nuke all life forms, then bottle? (if I bottle now, I assume I'll get glass-grenades) Thanks in advance... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 16:55:46 EDT From: cmorford at umbio.med.miami.edu (Speaker-To-Bankers) Subject: Garlic Beer from TCJOHB Forwarded message: Several weeks ago someone asked about the garlic beer that Mr. Papazian mentioned in TCJOHB. I talked to the people that brewed the infamous concoction and what they told me to do is boil up a can of light malt. After the boiling is done, throw about 3 to 4 HEADS of garlic (A head is the whole bundle of garlic), throughly smashed. Let the beer ferment out and carbonate normally. Don't add the garlic during the boil or you will boil off the aromatics that give garlic its unique smell and flavor. In the last message I wrote about this I speculated that the best use for this brew would be cooking seafood. The original brewers agree with this although they still contend that it goes great with pizza... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 91 18:06:07 CST From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Subject: Premier Malt Extract Here in the land of no homebrew Alabama.... I noticed something that made me laugh in the grocery store yesterday. About 12-15 cans of Premier Light Hopped Malt Extract (2.2#)!!! It even had a yeast packet included. The side of the can said: "Makes xxx Six Packs of Beer!" I forgot what xxx was. Has anyone used this stuff? Should I go buy them all? It was about $3.39 per 2.2# can. I did notice a recipe in TCJOH that called for 5 lbs of this stuff (Wise Ass Bitter? ...something like that). Suggestions? Darren *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Darren Evans-Young, Sys Prg BITNET: DARREN at UA1VM.BITNET | | The University of Alabama Internet: DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU | | Seebeck Computer Center Phone: (205)348-3988 / 5380 | | Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35487-0346 (205)348-3993 FAX | *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 91 23:13:09 -0600 (CST) From: Brian Capouch <brianc at zeta.saintjoe.EDU> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #590 (March 06, 1991) Excerpts from homebrew: 6-Mar-91 Homebrew Digest #590 >Whats the story on Fischer's new designer brew 35//19? (I think that's >what it's called) At $8.00 a 3-pak, its pricey. >Ted )TSAMSEL at USGSRESV.BIT) I believe you're describing their "lover's beer"--the fatuous brew that comes in a neo-phallic bottle and features a couple on the box with red diagonal color-swatches on their cheeks-- I haven't tasted it, but a general rule of thumb is that Fischer beers are about as bad as imports can be. Although I realize I'm risking some kind of cultural war here, I would venture to say that in my humble experience French beers in general are a poor investment--they ought to stick to making wines over there, which they are indeed good at. :-) The Fischer's people are very marketing-oriented; they are looking to sell their beers to the sort of y-people who would buy it *because* it's horrendously priced and packaged in a manner that Bozo the Clown would blush over. They haven't heard that those people don't exist anymore, or perhaps they're trying to milk the dregs a bit. B. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #591, 03/07/91 ************************************* -------
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