HOMEBREW Digest #656 Tue 11 June 1991

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		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  High FG, BFD info (Russ Gelinas)
  Re: Trouble with Trub (HBD #655) (Jean Hunter)
  Please add me to the Homebrew Digest mailing list (Paul S R Chisholm)
  Bottle Anatomy (drop back ten and...)  (Carl West x4449)
  Re: Excessive sanitation (Desmond Mottram)
  Re: Brewery visits in the UK (Desmond Mottram)
  Cleaning counter-flow chillers, try TSP (Ken Giles)
  Bottle nomenclature (hersh)
  New Subscription (MIKE LIGAS)
  Why not strawberries? (Ron Ezetta)
  This list and a Syracuse, N.Y. Contest (IOCONNOR)
  Sterilizing chillers; straining hops (BAUGHMANKR)
  Trub Removal, etc. (Martin A. Lodahl)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #655 (June 10, 1991) (Laura Lawson)
  Trub removal,cleaning copper,reusing yeast,cleaning counterflows (Darren Evans-Young)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #649 (May 31, 1991) (GOOOOOOOOOOD MOOOOOOOOOOORNING ACS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
  RE:Info About Scotland Needed (MIKE LIGAS)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1991 9:11:45 EDT From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: High FG, BFD info Mr. Ed's Oatmeal Stout is finally in the bottle. I was hoping the specific gravity would fall a little more, but it's done at 1.026, down from 1.062. I think the cause is a partial mash (3 lbs. pale 2-row and 1 lb. oatmeal) at too high a temp. The strike water was too hot, and I didn't want to add too much cold water. It spent too much time in the high 150's. Have I made a reasonable deduction? Brew Free or Die members: What was discussed at the meeting on Saturday? I'd appreciate an e-mail overview if you were there. (7.5 month pregnant wife + 2.5 year old daughter = .not.BFD meeting). Thanks. Russ r_gelinas%unhh.unh.edu at mitvma.mit.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 09:19:33 EDT From: Jean Hunter <MS3Y at CORNELLA.cit.cornell.edu> Subject: Re: Trouble with Trub (HBD #655) To add to the anti-trub arsenal: I use leaf hops in a cotton mesh bag to finish, generally adding them as I'm turning the heat off under my big canning kettle. After the immersion chiller has done its work I fish out the bag and lodge it atop the fine screen in my big funnel. Then I siphon off the wort through the hop bag. Not only are extra hop flavor/aroma compounds extracted out (I think!) but the bag and pad of hops act as an effective filter aid to catch trub and fragments of pellet hops. After all the wort has gone through, I press down on the bag with a big clean spoon to squeeze out the last drops. Another decent alternative is to leave the last quart of wort and trub in the boiling kettle. After pitching, come back and filter out the trub with a coffee filter, then freeze the wort. Next time you want to make a starter culture or some agar slants, you have known-quality wort all set to go with only a brief sanitizing boil needed before use. Oh, you can also add your O.G. sample to it unless you're a confirmed wort sipper (yum). -- Jean Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 09:58:32 EDT From: psrc%jupiter at epic.att.com (Paul S R Chisholm) Subject: Please add me to the Homebrew Digest mailing list Please add me to the Homebrew Digest mailing list. Paul S. R. Chisholm, AT&T Bell Laboratories, paul.s.r.chisholm at att.com P.S.: This is not my first request, but the first bounced, and I haven't gotten any response to my second. P.P.S.: If the rec.homebrew or rec.brewing Netnews group gets created, would it be okay with you if someone forwarded the HBD to it? (Yes, I'd be happy to do this.) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 10:40:54 EDT From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West x4449) Subject: Bottle Anatomy (drop back ten and...) It's probably called a punt because that's where the glassblower would attach the punty when finishing the mouth and neck of the bottle. (I guess the cause/effect could be the other way). My question is: Why is there a punt? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 17:36:53 BST From: Desmond Mottram <swindon!des at uunet.UU.NET> Subject: Re: Excessive sanitation > I'd like to say that I took the > discussion about excessive sanitation from a few months back to > heart. For these five batches I have used no bleach or any other > special sanitary measure. I just clean stuff to ordinary kitchen > standards. I rinse my bottles with tap water three times when I > empty them and three times before I fill them. I routinely top > off my chilled wort with tap water to make five gallons. I don't > even worry about the dry brown stuff that sticks to the carboy > after a fermentation is over. I rinse most of it off with fresh > wort when I drain it into the carboy. > Either you've been lucky or I've been unlucky. Like you I just used to give everything a good wash out, often with boiling water. Notice the past tense though!! I got away with it for about ten batches. The last time I did this (about two years ago) I noticed fermenting bin was getting a bit brown and made a note to use a chlorine cleaner before the next brew. I was too late! It fermented messily all over the floor. It looked foul and slimy; it stank. I tried barreling it anyway in the hope it might come right. It didn't and I had to throw it away. It then took _ages_ to get the taint out of the barrel. It only takes one bad batch to change your mind. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 17:47:30 BST From: Desmond Mottram <swindon!des at uunet.UU.NET> Subject: Re: Brewery visits in the UK > > Date: Sun, 9 Jun 91 10:04:44 CST > From: mike at ranger.bison.mb.ca (Mike Charlton) > Subject: Brewery Tours in Britain > > A friend and I are going to Britain for a few weeks in August (hopefully > catch the CAMRA beer festival) and I was wondering if there was anyone > out there who could recommend any brewery tours. We will be going all > over the place, so we could theoretically hit anything in Britain. Also, > I've heard that it's best to contact the brewery ahead of time to find > out when tours are happening. That being the case, could someone give me > a pointer to the addresses of likely breweries so I can send them a letter. > > Thanks in advance, > Mike Charlton A small selection straight off the top of my head: Hook Norton, Banbury, Oxon. Wadworths, Devizes, Wilts. Youngs, Wandsworth, London. Fullers, Chiswick, London. There are hundreds of others. CAMRA may give you a more complete list. Mail me for their address if you do not have it already. Come to that, a tour of the whisky distilleries in Scotland can make for a glorious hazy holiday. Desmond Mottram, des at swindon.ingr.com ..uunet!ingr!swindon!d_mottram Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 09:50:08 PDT From: keng at ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles) Subject: Cleaning counter-flow chillers, try TSP In HBD microsoft!larryba at cs.washington.edu says: > The bummer with counterflow chillers is cleaning them out. I have never > figured out a satisfactory solution for the kitchen brewer. Commercial > microbrewers use nasty corrosive chemicals and lots of very hot water. I've had good success with TriSodium Phosphate (TSP). TSP is not so corrosive to be dangerous (gloves are recommended but I often get it on my arms with no ill effects), but acts like a corrosive cleaner. I tried an experiment. After I rinsed and ran the usual bleach solution through my counter-flow chiller until it ran clear, I ran a solution of TSP through, and it came out yellow and eventually ran clear. The TSP was able to clean beyond the power of the bleach solution alone. No real surprise. TSP is also great for dissolving the gunk out of your blow-off hose. TSP is available in the paint section of most hardware-type stores. It's used for preparing surfaces for painting. I've heard that some homebrew suppliers sell a dry bleach/TSP combination called tri-chlor. I don't use this because I'm typically only cleaning afterword (with TSP) or sanitizing beforehand (with bleach). Stay clean, kg. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 14:08:17 EDT From: hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Bottle nomenclature > Does anyone else know any interesting bottle nomenclature? Yes. Empty- the state I prefer to leave mine in :-) :-) > Because I have on several occasions had a Miller go skunky on me within > a matter of seconds of exposure to direct sunlight The sunlight-hop reaction takes more than seconds. I seem to remember the number of 30-45 minutes as being right to convert a sufficient quantity for the skunkiness to breach the threshold for human detection. Of course you could have an amazingly sensitive palatte to this substance.. From what I've heard/read Miller has a patented process which they use to treat the hop oils (they don't add whole hops) that they add to their beer. JaH Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1991 11:32:00 -0400 From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: New Subscription Sorry to use HD space to request a subscription but I sent in a request to the request address about a month ago and am yet to see any HDs in my mailbox. I've been getting copies from a buddy and I thoroughly enjoy the forum and have learned much by reading it. Keep up the good work...I raise a glass to all of us. Please subscribe ligas at sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 14:22:25 PDT From: Ron Ezetta <rone at loowit.wr.tek.com> Subject: Why not strawberries? Soon the local strawberry crop (Washington and Oregon) will be ready. The thought of a pound, or so, of strawberries in a Rocky Raccoon Honey lager sounds delicious. However, I've noticed that *The Catus Meow* (an outstanding effort, btw), Papazian, nor HBD (from #577 to date) discuss strawberries as an ingredient in beer. Why? Any recipes or brewing suggestions? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1991 17:43:08 EDT From: IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR.EDU Subject: This list and a Syracuse, N.Y. Contest I just wanted to say that I really enjoy this list. People are very friendly and will answer your questions, and there is not a lot of junk mail (like this message). Subsacribers generally reply to questions off the list, and that saves all of us a lot of time. Overall this is the best list I've been on. I was on one that just redistributed submissions automatically, and I used to get 50 messages a day--mostly "yes, I agree" and the like. The second point is for anyone who might be in the area of Syracuse, N.Y. on June 18. The Club in Syracuse is having a contest and if you will be in town, then you should go. It will be on June 18, at 7:15pm at a restaurant called Danzer's, Ainsley Drive, Syracuse. Contact me for more details. Kieran O'Connor IOCONNOR at SUNRISE (bitnet) IOCONNOR at SUNRISE.ACS.SYR EDU (internet) P.S. Sunny and 85 in Syracuse--prettyy amazing--time to go for a ride! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1991 15:57 EST From: BAUGHMANKR at CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU Subject: Sterilizing chillers; straining hops Larry from Microsoft writes: >The bummer with counterflow chillers is cleaning them out. I have never >figured out a satisfactory solution for the kitchen brewer. Commercial >microbrewers use nasty corrosive chemicals and lots of very hot water. I >just rinse well after each use. Before the next use I drain all the bleach >solution used to sanitize my carboy through the chiller before draining the >hot wort through it into the carboy. I also toss the first pint of wort to >make sure no bleach gets into my wort. Probably draining a couple of gallons >of boiling water through the chiller w/o chilling water would work as well >as avoiding bleach. Maybe commercial brewers use nasty corrosive chemicals but many brewpubs use boiling water or wort just like we do. My technique is this: Follow a chilling session with a gallon or so of boiling water through the coils after draining the chiller body of its water, to cut the malt sugars from the copper. Usually I follow that up with some of the sterilant (I use 1 T. clorox per 1 gallon of water) that I've been using for that session, until the sterilant runs cool from the coil (since high temperatures destroy the disinfectant effects of clorox). Drain. Store dry. Prior to the next session of brewing, I will usually fill the chiller coils back up with the sterilant solution and let it sit for about 20 minutes. Drain. When I begin the chill routine, I run the boiling hot wort through the chiller prior to filling the chiller body with water. The boiling hot wort will sterilize the coils for sure. Toss the first few ounces of wort that comes through since some clorox will be in it. Let a quart or so of wort run through then return it to the boiler. Fill the chiller body with water and let 'er rip. The boiling wort through the coils is what really does the trick with this routine just like it does with immersion chillers. So why do I still use the clorox solution? It's simple. It only takes a minute and I'm paranoid as hell! The most effective means for straining wort into the fermenter discussion has popped back up so here again is my pot-scrubber-in-a- mesh-bag technique for filtering hops: I've never been a fan of pouring wort through a filter because filters clog and you're bound to pour at least some trub into the fermenter. Buy a copper wound pot scrubber and a fine mesh hop bag. Also get a rather thick rubber band. It also helps to have a copper pick-up tube if you're going to siphon hot wort into your fermenter. If you're cooling it first, one of those plastic pick-up tubes will do the trick. Tie the pot scrubber around the bottom of the pick-up tube (the end that's going into the wort). Then tie the fine mesh hop bag around that, in effect putting the pot scrubber in a bag. (Oh, yes, "No see- um netting" from a camping store works well, also.) Tie a small 1/4" overhand loop in one end of the rubber band. Loop the other big end around and through the handle on your boiling pot. Now slip the pick-up tube through the small end of the rubber band. If you've tied the small loop small enough, the rubber band will grab the pick-up tube at whatever position you want. Suspend the pick-up tube a couple of inches below the top level of the wort. Start your siphon. The mesh bag/pot scrubber combo will effectively filter out all the hop leaves and particles. By siphoning from the top level of the wort, you'll always be siphoning off the clearest portion of the wort. As the level of the wort recedes, slowly inch the pick-up tube down accordingly, always keeping it an inch or two below the surface. This technique will give you the cleanest possible run-off into the fermenter without clogging the siphon. Others have commented on the effect of whirlpooling the wort before starting the siphon, so I won't comment on that. Cheers, Kinney Baughman baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu baughmankr at appstate.bitnet L+\f~jw Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 15:21:02 PDT From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!malodah at PacBell.COM> Subject: Trub Removal, etc. Ah yes, trub removal. The method I use seems to alarm some people, but the only trouble I've ever had with it is when it works too well. I use an immersion chiller. At the end of the boil, I immediately begin chilling, and keep going until the temperature differential between the tap water and the wort is about 20 degrees F, or so. I use the hot water this generates for cleanup. Then I attach a pump, and recirculate ice water through the coils until the temperature is near freezing. I then do the whirlpool thing, and rack into a sanitized carboy, which I cap and leave overnight to settle. In the morning the wort is very clear and there is a generous layer of previously-suspended trub on the carboy floor! I rack into my fermentor (7-gallon acid carboy), and pitch. In a sense, I was better off before the chiller, when I was doing mainly partial-mashes. Since I was boiling only a part of the total volume, I could use ice directly in the wort to chill. I usually boiled the water first, but not always. Never a problem, and some of the best cold breaks I've ever had. The concern seems to be sanitation. While I can't go as far as Father Barleywine (having tasted altogether too many contaminated homebrews and microbrews, and since I culture Pediococcus damnosus and Brettanomyces bruxellensis for use in making imitation lambics), I have to say that I've never had a hint of infection using this technique. I live in a microbiologically relatively benign climate; your mileage may vary. The only problems I've ever had with it are when I've sacrificed too much wort in the interest of keeping trub absolutely out of the ferment. There seems to be some interaction between trub and yeast in the aerobic phase, and feeding the yeast just a little of it seems to start the fermentation a bit faster. I can't quantify this; it's altogether an impression. Also, a trubless brew can end up "too clean", especially after the wild originality of your first few batches. I was surprised to hear Dr. Michael Lewis say that they'd researched the effect of fermenting with varying degrees of trub in the brewing lab at U. C. Davis, and had found it made much less difference than they'd expected. It made a rather large difference in my beer, I can tell you! = Martin A. Lodahl Pacific*Bell Staff Analyst = = malodah at pbmoss.Pacbell.COM Sacramento, CA 916.972.4821 = = If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, = = Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) = Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 15:35:22 PDT From: Laura.Lawson at EBay.Sun.COM (Laura Lawson) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #655 (June 10, 1991) Please remove laurel at moondancer from this alias. Thank you Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 91 18:16:13 CDT From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN%UA1VM.UA.EDU at hplb.hpl.hp.com> Subject: Trub removal,cleaning copper,reusing yeast,cleaning counterflows Trub removal: When I first used leaf hops, I followed the suggestion from the HBD and used a copper pot scrubber with a muslin (cheesecloth type) bag wrapped around it and secured to my siphon tube. I got all of my wort out and left behind the trub which stuck to the leaf hops. This worked so well that for my next batch using hop pellets, I did the same thing. I got a very small amount of trub in my primary. As the mass of shredded hops moved toward the siphon pickup, it acted as a sort of filter. I was amazed how well this worked for pellets and it is now a part of my brewing procedures. Cleaning copper: Whenever I use copper for the first time, whether tubing or a pot scrubber, I always boil it with some vinegar. This removes any oxidation off the copper and leaves it shining bright...also sanitizes it inside and out...Rinse well! Cleaning counterflow chillers: I simply run hot tap water through mine for about 5 mins after use. Before my next usage, I again run hot tap water through it, then use a weak bleach solution for 5-10 mins, then run hot tap water through to rinse. Works well and I've never had a contamination problem. Reusing yeast cake: I thought I'd give this a try. Boy does it work! I had fermentation going within 15 minutes of pouring in my new wort. By the next morning, I had blown the top off the fermentation lock in a 7.5 gallon carboy and foam was oozing everywhere! Is this normal for reusing the yeast cake in a primary? I'd definitely NOT do this again without using a blow-off tube. Seems like this method of reusing yeast is overpitching and causing the yeast to skip it's reproductive stage. How will this affect flavor? Darren *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* | Darren Evans-Young, Sys Prg BITNET: DARREN at UA1VM.BITNET | | The University of Alabama Internet: DARREN at UA1VM.UA.EDU | | Seebeck Computer Center Phone: (205)348-3988 / 5380 | | Tuscaloosa, Alabama 35487-0346 (205)348-3993 FAX | *---------------------------------------------------------------------------* Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1991 20:07 EDT From: GOOOOOOOOOOD MOOOOOOOOOOORNING ACS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <ACSWILEY%EKU.BITNET at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #649 (May 31, 1991) Hep me! In never got issue #654...would someone please send it my way..THANKS!! Bill Wiley acswiley at eku.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1991 22:56:00 -0400 From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS at SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA> Subject: RE:Info About Scotland Needed In HD 645 Lars Nilsson posted a request for information on the Scottish beer scene, demonstrating a keen grip on the importance of good planning for a successful vacation. Well Lars, it's your lucky day. As it turns out I have friend in St. Andrews who was willing to E-mail some information. The following is a synopsis of his communication: *PUBS* i) Glasgow (Downtown) :Horseshoe Bar (Drury Lane) :Imperial Bar :Bon Accord (Charing Cross) :Zutz :The Scotia Bar :Blackfriars (jazz on Thur/Fri/Sun) :Vale of Clyde (Queen St. station) :Brahms & Lizst (near Odeon Cinema) :Gordon's Bar ii) Glasgow (West End) es Bar (back of Kelvin Hall) :The Halt Bar (Woodside Rd.) :Usage Breethe (Woodside Rd.) :Chumy Chengs (Gt. Western Rd.) iii) Glasgow (Pollokshaws) :Hergathy's Bar :Titwood Bar :Allison Arms iv) Edinburgh :Cafe Royale (behind Scottish records office) :Hebrides Bar (near Waverly Station) :Greyfriars Bobby :various pubs on Rose St. and on the Grassmarket. v) Stirling :West End Bar :Cairns :Cross Keys :Porters Bar :Birds & Bees Although Scottish beers are not in great abundance (in terms of variety) they are available along with a plethora of British ales. Some of the brews you can expect to come across are: Tennent's Lager (Are you ready?), McEwan's Lager, McEwan's Export, Sunderland (Draught Bitter), Newcastle Brown Ale, (Take Up) Hemeling (Lite Lager), Carling Blacklabel, Camenoris Strongarm (The Mightiest of Beers), Federation Brewery Lager, M&B Brew XI (Have a pint of the Midlands), Norseman Lager, Camenoris Best Bitter, Courage (Light Ale), Bank's (Traditional Draught Beers), Courage Beer, Theakston Ales (150 Years of Tradition), The Royal Silver Jubilee, Whitbread Shandy, Lion Lager, 70p, 80p, Tartan Sp. As far as homebrew shops are concerned, there ione on Main Street in Stirling and there is one in St. Andrews. I couldn't get any information on breweries that offer guided tours, but I'm sure a few well placed phone calls will get you the help you need once you are in Scotland. Good luck and happy drinking! I hope that this posting will be helpful to any HD suscribers who may find themselves in Scotland some day...it certainly has wet my appetite! Cheers. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #656, 06/11/91 ************************************* -------
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