HOMEBREW Digest #841 Wed 11 March 1992

Digest #840 Digest #842

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  liquid yeast (chip upsal)
  offensive postings (gaspar)
  Judging Criteria - liquid yeast. (joshua.grosse)
  A virgin? Well, almost! (jack.stclair)
  Dry vs. Liquid, What else? (Norm Pyle)
  Liberty Ale and W'yeast (caitrin lynch)
  Re: HANDS OFF Chezch Budvar!! (ingr!b11!mspe5!guy)
  mailer ate my last line (STROUD)
  Italian beer recipes, please (Scott Benton)
  hop pellets vs whole bitterness (donald oconnor)
  roasted vs black barley (donald oconnor)
  wyeast packaging (donald oconnor)
  Kathy Ireland (C.R. Saikley)
  mash/lauter tun, Bud (Russ Gelinas)
  Wyeast packaging (Rob Winters)
  Liquid .vs. dry yeast (matth)
  No more BudMillCoorschlitz bashing, please! (John Post)
  Definitions of beer styles (Bryan Gros)
  The Professor on shipping beer (Tom Quinn 5-4291)
  Hoppy Brew (Robert Lampe)
  Korean "makoli" beer (another request) (Bob Devine  10-Mar-1992 1332)
  Re: Kathy Ireland (John R. Pierce)
  Kathy Ireland ("Lance "Cogsworth" Smith")
  dry vs liquid yeast; debunking the RS Ale Momily (charlto)
  Wyeast used by AHA National Competitions (Tim P McNerney)
  Rehydrating dry yeast (Larry Barello)

Send submissions to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Send requests to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com [Please do not send me requests for back issues!] Archives are available from netlib at mthvax.cs.miami.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Mar 92 06:22:51 EST From: chip upsal <70731.3556 at compuserve.com> Subject: liquid yeast Mathew Harper ask: > My question ( I'm still new at this... ) > > *Why* is using a liquid yeast *soooooo* much better? It is PURE AND CLEAN. I never realized just how much of my beers where infected untill I started using pure culture. >From what I have read the is no way to maintain strility when processing dry yeast. Chip Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 08:56:10 -0600 From: gaspar at wuchem.wustl.edu Subject: offensive postings I find the inability of Jeff Frane to control the tone of his remarks about Jack Schmidling highly offensive. Frane might consider seeking the assistance of an editor, or professional counseling. As an alternative, he would be doing the list a favor by not sending any more postings. Peter Gaspar Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 10 March 1992 10:15am ET From: joshua.grosse at amail.amdahl.com Subject: Judging Criteria - liquid yeast. Jack S. wrote: >It is also quite posible that judges are so tuned to the taste of Wyeast that >they look for it and reject others. If it is used as a standard for judging, >the results will be skewed. Jack, the judging of amateur beers is to compare them against commercial standards. And, as there are many different strains from Wyeast and other labs, attunement isn't the issue. Next week, Goose Island will begin accepting beers for the national competition. Why not take a few of your beers there and enter 'em? Then, should you win, you'll have done it with Edme dry yeast. Now, can we put this issue to rest for a few months? - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Grosse (apprentice judge) jdg00 at amail.amdahl.com Amdahl Corp. 313-358-4440 Southfield, Michigan Return to table of contents
Date: Tuesday, 10 March 1992 07:49 PT From: jack.stclair at amail.amdahl.com Subject: A virgin? Well, almost! A special thanks an many kudos to all you homebrewers who responded to my query last week. The response was overwhelming, not only did I find out what a carboy was, I'm in the process of buying one (along with bottle capper, caps, recipes, etc.). I'm also looking forward to joining the Gold Country Brewers Association in Sacramento. Thanks Ken, Martin, et al. Just thought you'ld like to know, I start my day with a cup of coffee and theis BB. I just didn't know life could get this good. It's been a pleasure meeting all of you through this BB, I'm looking forward to a long and happy (hic) relationship. Jack (not to be confused w/ Schmidling) St.Clair Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 09:17:33 MST From: pyle at intellistor.com (Norm Pyle) Subject: Dry vs. Liquid, What else? arf at ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes: ...lots of stuff about how dry yeast _should_ be able to be produced in a pure form, then... > That was the end of my original posting sans about two pages of counter flame. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And _that_ is *most* appreciated. ...and more about why dry yeast _should_ be able to be produced in a pure form, then... >So why, if it is so easy, has it not been done, if indeed, it has not? It comes down to (surprise!) the almighty dollar. The bread makers, both commercial and home bakers, are quite happy, I believe, with the quality of the bread yeasts. The only lot who desire improvement are the brewers, and I mean the home brewers. The commmercial brewers have no need for a quality dry yeast because they have a good handle on culturing their own pure yeast. The homebrewer is the only market for such a product, and until now, the market is too small for the capital investment risk. Note that I say "until now". It is very possible that work will commence in this area and produce the pure dry yeast that you seek, but it will take $$$'s. Are you willing to invest your hard-earned (or easily-inherited) dollars to this cause? Do you believe it to be a viable business? The government obviously isn't going to invest the research money (they've got better things to do with your money), how about you? All of this is, of course, just MHO. Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 10:32:50 CST From: caitrin lynch <lyn6 at midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Liberty Ale and W'yeast About a month ago, I asked for suggestions on how to duplicate Liberty Ale. The following recipe is based on Jim Busch's suggestions. Everyone who replied emphasized dry hopping and Cascade hops. This seems to have done the trick. 5.5 lbs light malt extract .5 lbs crystal malt 1 1/2 oz Fuggles hop plugs for 60 min. 1 oz Cascade 30 min 1 1/2 oz last 10 min (added in handfulls every 2 min or so) W'yeast American Ale yeast 1 1/2 oz Cascade whole hops for dry hopping The brewing procedure was pretty much standard. Fermented from 1040 down to about 1010 in two weeks. I dry hopped it in the secondary for 1 1/2 weeks. Using only whole cascades (apart from the fuggles for bittering), really made a differance in flavour and aroma of the beer. My best beer ever, and IMHO better than most beer available in the local store (cheaper too). I attribute the success of this beer entirely to the use of liquid yeast, or perhaps also merly to changing yeast. Previous brews were marred by a slight tang, which I eventually traced to the yeast (thank you Jack Schmidling). The american ale yeast made all the difference in the world. Everyone should at least try it, if only in the spirit of fun. After all, thats why I brew in the first place. My next brew will be similar but I am aiming for an English bitter. I plan to use the same recipe, only more bittering hops, and subsituting Kent Goldings for the cascade. I have access to whole K.G.s from British Columbia; are these any good? Should I adjust my amounts? I am planning on using w'yeast london ale, any problems with this yeast? Thanks to all for helping me make great beer!! Cheers, Caitrin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 10:34:21 CST From: ingr!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy at uunet.UU.NET Subject: Re: HANDS OFF Chezch Budvar!! Desmond Mottram writes: > >From: synchro!chuck at uunet.UU.NET > > Subject: Budvar > > > [Reprint of Camra article about AB buying shares in Czech Budvar deleted] > > > > Elsewhere in What's Brewing, they editorialize that the tone of the offer > > sounds more like A-B wants 100% of Budvar, not just 30% as they claim. > > Certainly some of the promises that A-B is making require more than 30% > > control to guarantee. As you might expect, CAMRA is not in favor of a small > > traditional brewery like Budvar being absorbed by a giant like A-B. > > > > While I agree on principle, I must admit that the idea of getting Budvar over > > here is attractive. > Take great care!! The whole point is that, time and time again, bitter > experience shows that when a small traditional brewery gets absorbed by a > giant, within a very short time there is no small brewery, and you can kiss > goodbye to getting Czech Budvar anywhere - ever. If the small brewery made > bad beer, perhaps no-one would mind too much, but in this case the beer they > make is one of the finest in the world - it's a real aristocrat. Exactly! With microbrewed beer rising in popularity (and with this year's drop in sales of the brewing giants' "product") how long do you think it will be before AB or Miller or Adolph Coors, etc. "wish to buy a stake in Anchor" or Sam Adams or Sierra Nevada, to name just a few. The U.S. brewing giants have the resources to buy up the competition and would rather do so than compete directly. Too many bean counters telling them that real beer is a "fad" or only a "niche" market. > Promises mean nothing to these people, they will make them to keep others > quiet and then break them, weeping crocodile tears of remorse, wringing > their hands and pleading "economic necessity", "brewery surplus to > requirements" or whatever cynical euphamism is the trend at the time. Sadly, the ethics of too many big businesses. > Many of us [in Camra] believe their real aim is to kill off a competitor. > One who brews far better beer and who, rubbing salt into the wound, has in > many countries the right to the Budwieser name (for the simple reason that > the Czech brewery is older than the US one). If you think the AB has an > altruistic wish to bring better beer to a wider audience, then you have had > no experience of the ruthless practices of big breweries in this country > and elsewhere. Your naaivity would be touching if it were not tragic. Far > from supporting it, you should be backing a vociferous campaign to stop it. I agree with Desmond here. I am against any of the big U.S. breweries getting their hands on a brewery that puts out good quality real beer. Look what they've done to their own beer! > Think about it, if AB really cared for quality beer they would make it > themselves, wouldn't they? This is it in a nutshell. Time and again we have heard people describe touring these megabreweries in awe of their sheer size and resources. They easily have all of the tools necessary to produce real beer if they so desired. But, remember people, you really want clear, piss-yellow, ultra-light rice and corn beer! Their market researchers told them so. People who appreciate beer true to its tradition do not exist in these people's minds! I understand that Miller produces (produced?) an all-barley beer called "Miller Special Reserve". My cousin works for Miller in Huntsville and he said (a year or two ago) that they were test-marketing it in larger cities, with the closest to us being Atlanta. I saw it advertised the last time I was in Boulder but, with all of the known good beer around, I didn't get around to trying it. Anyway, I asked my cousin recently if we were likely to see Miller Special Reserve in Huntsville anytime soon. His reply? "We're more likely to see the new Ultra-light beer they're coming out with". Progress man, progress. - -- Guy McConnell (...uunet!ingr!b11!mspe5!guy) "Gimme that 'Ray Charles' beer!" Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 12:18 EST From: STROUD <STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com> Subject: mailer ate my last line My mailer garbled the last lines of my posting yesterday about Red Star Ale yeast (from HBD #840). They should have read: In and of themselves they are good beer yeasts, but they are produced in such a manner that their purity is compromised. This may (and often does) cause defects to arise in the final product. Sorry for any confusion that it may have caused. Steve Stroud Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 92 20:13:20 EST From: scott at sps (Scott Benton) Subject: Italian beer recipes, please I'd like to brew an Italian beer for a family reunion this summer. Does anyone have any recipes? Does such a thing exist? Thanks, Scott Benton sps!scott at darth.pgh.pa.us CI$ 70062,1475 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 11:31:31 -0600 From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor) Subject: hop pellets vs whole bitterness Jeff Miller points out that chopping up the hops will result in more bitterness in the beer (same boiling times). This is consistent with the fact that the %AA utilization is about 15% greater for hop pellets than whole hops for equal boiling times. That is 10 HBU of pellets is equivalent to about 11.5 HBU of whole hops. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 11:37:32 -0600 From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor) Subject: roasted vs black barley There are 2 'roasted' barley grains (not malted) from breiss. One is called roasted barley and the other black barley. i have been mistakenly using roasted barley to add the dry acrid flavor to stouts for several years. it is actually black barley that is principly responsible for this. black barley is very dark, much like black patent malt. roasted barley is lighter much like chocolate malt. Chocolate malt adds a dark red hue to beer; i'm not sure what color roasted barley adds, maybe the same. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 11:40:12 -0600 From: oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (donald oconnor) Subject: wyeast packaging wyeast packages with the self-contained starter will be available again a week from this friday. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 09:44:24 PST From: grumpy!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley) Subject: Kathy Ireland >From: mtavis at saturn.hyperdesk.com (Mike Tavis) >This weekend I saw Kathy Ireland doing a Bud commercial. At least I >think it was Bud. It may have been Miller or Michelob. I was so >shocked at the sight that the details elude me. Anyway, how can she >go from the cover of Zymurgy to the this? Has she no shame? Apparently not. Not only was Kathy Ireland on the cover of Zymurgy a few years back, but (hold on to your hats) she is also part owner of the SLO Brewing Co, a brewpub in San Luis Obispo, CA. She is unable to publicly endorse her own business because of contractual agreements with Anheuser-Busch. Then again, perhaps it's just as well. The thought of a micro with one of the world's highest paid models as part of their add campaign is truly frightening. Leave the bikinis to the big boys. CR Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 13:28:05 -0500 (EST) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: mash/lauter tun, Bud I made a lauter tun this weekend out of a 10 gall. cylindrical water cooler and a stainless steel bowl. I punched about 50 holes in the bowl (be careful, the burred edges are *sharp*, ouch!), and set it on a small inverted plate in the cooler. Too snug to fit in at first, but a cut in the rim of the bowl allowed it to overlap, and then it can be made snug again. It worked great! Pour whole mash and all sparge water right into it, let sit for 10 minutes, and let it drain. Recycle some. What a breeze! Seeyalater Zapap! I've heard that it's possible to also mash in the cooler. How is that done? Seems to me it would be hard to get an even mix, and there's a fairly large space under the strainer-bowl that would be just liquid, no grains. Perhaps that really has little effect? It would be nice to do an infusion/sparge all in one container..... What is the difference between Budvar, and European Budweiser? I ask because I was just given a bottle of Budweiser from, it appears, Czechslovakia. Budvar is a different beer, yes? Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 13:42:27 -0500 (EST) From: RWINTERS at nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov (Rob Winters) Subject: Wyeast packaging In HBD #839, bliss at csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss) writes: >However, I concurr with Jack S. and personally beleive that wyeast >"purity" is a myth. My first package was an english ale yeast, and the >starter went sour. I ordered another (dated the same), and by the >time it arrived (2 days max w/o refigeration, during april), the >outer package had already swelled completely up, but the inner >one was unbroken, and the package was obviously infected. In HBD #838, smithey at rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Brian Smithey) writes: >On 4 Mar 92 15:22:30 EST (Wed), GC Woods <gcw at garage.att.com> said: >[ starting Wyeast ] >>packet. At one point I had my entire weight (140lb) on the packet and >>nothing happened (I was impressed that the outside packet held), so then >>I tried to isolate the inner packet at one end and squeeze, but the >>outside packet broke. Unlike Ray I used the inner packet in a starter - >>hope there is enough nutrient to get it going! >Maybe now the debate can finally be settled -- is the yeast in the >inner packet or the outer? Geoff, let us know in a few days whether >or not your "yeast" ferments your starter. A description of Wyeast in a homebrew catalog that I have (BREWHAUS, Knoxville, TN) reads: ... "The bag kit contains a small plastic bag of nutrient solution within a larger bag containing yeast cells in suspension. The yeast ferments within the large bag when activated by breaking the inner bag of nutrient." ... If that's the case, then G.C. must either have a dead batch or bathtub gin by now. Also, Brian's YEAST was infected with NUTRIENT, and not the other way around. Is any confirmation available yet? Someone affiliated with Wyeast would surely know. Rob Winters Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 14:08:41 EST From: matth at bedford.progress.COM Subject: Liquid .vs. dry yeast I wanted to thank everyone for all the insight I now have regarding this topic. I've only been reading the digest for about 5 months now and I must say, it's a wealth of information (good and bad!-) Thanks again! -Matth PS In case your curoius, the overall verdict is to use liquid yeast. (But i bet you already knew that...) Matthew J. Harper ! Progress Software Corp. ! {disclaimer.i} God created heaven and earth to grow barley and hops. Now he homebrews !-) Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 11:58 PDT From: John Post <POST at VAXT.llnl.gov> Subject: No more BudMillCoorschlitz bashing, please! I've read this Digest for a long time, and have observed the following dichotomy consistently time and time again: "We as homebrewers try to maintain a personna of casual tolerance of others, both recipes, techniques, and attitudes. However, this personna has the unfortunate habit of loving to hate the large brewers of the U.S." While I'm not partial to BudMillCoorschlitz myself, nevertheless, these brewers are extremely adept at consistently producing classic examples of North American lagers. This is a recognized style of beer, (and, BTW, VERY difficult for the homebrewer to duplicate), and should be accorded some degree of respect, however slight... I have toured several breweries belonging to the Big Three, and have always been impressed with the enthusiastic response of brewery personnel when they find out that I'm a homebrewer. One brewery chemist (from A-B, no less!) went way out of his way to help me answer a question, consulting with his collegues at other brewery locations and calling me back a week later...So much for the Big Brother Brewery attitude so often expressed here... Just because we make our own beer, doesn't mean we make better beer (Ask a beer judge!). Besides, how many of us guzzled BudMillCoorschlitz like crazy before we figured this homebrew thing out? Think about it! Flames eagerly accepted. Please forward to post1 at llnl.gov. Carpe Beerum! __________________________________________________________________________ | These are my opinions, | John Post | | so of course they're right! | Lawrence Livermore Lab | | My boss doesn't care about | post1 at llnl.gov | | this stuff! | post@ vaxt.llnl.gov | __________________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 12:13:44 PST From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros) Subject: Definitions of beer styles Could someone post or direct me to a source of the definitions of various beer styles? I'm talking about the specifics for, I guess, beer judges; Things like: Color Weight Bitterness Sweetness etc. I could use this to determine if the ale I made last week was say, a pale ale, or an IPA (for entering in a contest). And when I brew the "Greatest Beer in the World", I know what to call it :-) - Bryan Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 13:33:44 CST From: quinnt at turing.med.ge.com (Tom Quinn 5-4291) Subject: The Professor on shipping beer The Spring issue of Zymurgy showed up at my house yesterday. Besides having lots of info about the June AHA conference here in Milwaukee, there was a letter to the Professor (Surfeit?) in which the writer asked about shipping beer. The following is an excerpt copied without permission from pages 55-56 of the Spring 1991 Zymurgy: Writer: ...(1) I recently mailed some samples of beer and mead to a friend. They never got there. As it turns out, the Mailing Requirements Office got it (because of damage), inspected it and decided that the contents contained "beer containing 0.5 percent or more alchohol content by weight as defined in Chapter 51 of the Internal Revenue Code." Well, I knew it had to be over 0.5 percent, but I didn't know that anything over 0.5 percent by weight was "NONMAILABLE" (their caps). It turns out that neither UPS nor any of the other carriers I've called will take it either. So how _does_ one ship homemade beer, mead, etc.? ... The Professor: Well, actually, beer is mailable with carriers if it is for analytical purposes, or if it is intrastate. I know New York and California, for example, have been able to mail order wine and mead, but there are some minor regulations. Doing it interstate is technically not allowed if not for analytical purposes. How are you going to ship your brews to a friend? I don't know how you'll do it and frankly I don't need to be told as long as your friend eventually has the pleasure of enjoying your beer. Shhhh. ... [end of excerpt] So I guess they aren't able to offer any practical advice on getting entries to the regional judgings - I suspect they must be very careful about suggesting ways around the regulations. Think I could convince a UPS counter guy that I'm sending this box to Goose Island Brewery for analytical purposes? Tom =============== Tom Quinn uucp: {uunet!crdgw1|sun!sunbrew}!gemed!quinnt internet: quinnt at med.ge.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 11:30:05 PST From: Robert Lampe <dplace!rob at PacBell.COM> Subject: Hoppy Brew Hello, I've been thinking about brewing a beer that has the most hops possible -- with out getting into the off flavors (if any), dead yeasties, or contaminations from the hops. Whole hops or pellets anyone? Has anybody an idea, or perhaps a recipe? Is there a limmit to the amount of hops one may add to brew? There are no flavor qualifications. I'm looking for a slightly bitter beer, with good aroma, though. Post or e-mail. I'll summurize if you like. Thanks for any help ~~~~~~ Robert Lampe |rob at dplace.uucp Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 12:39:05 PST From: Bob Devine 10-Mar-1992 1332 <devine at cookie.enet.dec.com> Subject: Korean "makoli" beer (another request) Michael Biondo (michael at wupsych.wustl.edu) asks: > A fellow homebrewer asked if I would query the collective wisdom of the HBD > as to any information that may exist on a Korean homebrew called MAKKOLLI. If anyone has any information, please send it to me too. One of the members of the local homebrew club served in South Korea as part of the Peace Corps. He has vague rememberances of it (it was > 20 years ago). On a related note, I sent Charlie Papazian a letter telling about MAKKOLLI because I heard that CP was writing a book on native beers from around the world. Since he never replied to my letter, is Charlie really doing such a book? Bob Devine Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1992 11:46:21 From: pierce at pyramid.pyramid.com (John R. Pierce) Subject: Re: Kathy Ireland mtavis at saturn.hyperdesk.com (Mike Tavis) writes... >This weekend I saw Kathy Ireland doing a Bud commercial. Maybe we'll see {Charlie | Michael | ??} on the cover of S.I. !! ;-> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 15:56:12 CST From: "Lance "Cogsworth" Smith" <lsmith at cs.umn.edu> Subject: Kathy Ireland Kathy Ireland is promoting Bud for their St Patrick's day blitz. (Ireland, get it?) I suppose it makes as much sense as drinking bland American beer on St Patrick's day. Also it does seem strange, not only because she is/was a homebrewer, but because she was partial owner of a brewpub/microbrewery in California. Of course she is a model and this is her job. I find Michael Jackson's commercials for Blitz-Weinhart (?) a little more puzzling. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 14:53:00 CST From: charlto at ccu.UManitoba.CA Subject: dry vs liquid yeast; debunking the RS Ale Momily Did you try making a batch using all 4 yeasts together? It might make a difference to the finished product. I sure wish I had some more time so I could try some neat experiments like this. Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 18:04:19 PST From: tpm at spl47.spl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) Subject: Wyeast used by AHA National Competitions Quick scenario: 1. 20 people enter a homebrew competition 2. 19 use liquid yeast 3. all 3 winners use liquid yeast Which of the following is true: a. all the winners use liquid yeast b. liquid yeast is better than dry yeast Answer: a is true b may be true but cannot be determined from the above scenario. Stop using examples that prove nothing as evidence that liquid yeast is better than dry yeast. It is probably also true that all the winners at the AHA brewed beer and not wine, but this is not evidence that beer is better than wine. ________________________________ - --Tim McNerney - --Loral Western Development Labs - --(408) 473-4748 - --tpm at wdl1.wdl.loral.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 92 21:08:49 PST From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello) Subject: Rehydrating dry yeast Alan Mayman inquires about the need to proof dry yeast before pitching into fresh wort. I used to proof dry Whitbread yeast. I found out that in fact I obtained stronger and quicker starts by dumping the yeast directly into the carboy. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #841, 03/11/92