HOMEBREW Digest #877 Wed 06 May 1992

Digest #876 Digest #878


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  bad beer? (Now we will gnaw on their skulls)
  Bad beer perhaps? (Roger SElby)
  question about mash conversion (John Fitzgerald)
  Re:  Homebrew Digest #876 (May 05, 1992) (Scott Weintraub)
  Strange smelling Lager (lee_menegoni)
  Calcium Cloride (Crawford.Wbst129)
  Raspberry Ale (Anthony Rossini)
  yeast, NA (Russ Gelinas)
  Growing hops (Carol Miller-Tutzauer)
  Growing hops
  MBC yeast (mcnally)
  Hop restraint  (Carl West)
  Beer - of course! (Scott Jay)
  Re: Homebrew Digest #876 (May 05, 1992) (ZAPPULLA)
  Summary: mead question responses (David Suda)
  AHA Conference - Need a roomie!? (Dave Beedle)
  Grolsch bottle gaskets (mark)
  MTHVAX ARCHIVES (andrew mossberg / mthvax admin)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 May 1992 03:01 -0600 From: Now we will gnaw on their skulls <SELBYR at MEENA.CC.UREGINA.CA> Subject: bad beer? I was wondering if anyone could help me with a question I have. I made up a batch of beer in late August/early September, transfered it to a carboy,then ended up leaving it until a week ago to bottle. What are the chances of it being drinkable? The carboy sat undisturbed in my basement (very cool) over a Canadian winter - temp under 19 degrees centigrade most definitely. A related question would be - what, if any, would be the ill effects (affects?) of drinking this or any "bad" beer? Also, what should I be looking for to determine if a beer should or shouldn't or couldn't be imbibed? ie, what smells and sights should I look out for? Thanks for any and all help. Roger Selby Dept. of Anth. University of Regina Regina, Sask., Canada S4S 0A2 (selbyrog at uregina1, selbyr at ureginav) p.s. Is rinsing with a sodium metabisulphate solution sufficient to sterilize bottles, equipment, carboys, etc..? Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 May 92 03:12:56 CST From: Roger SElby <SELBYROG at MAX.CC.UREGINA.CA> Subject: Bad beer perhaps? I was wondering if anyone could help me with a question I have. I made up a batch of beer in late August/early September, transfered it to a carboy,then ended up leaving it until a week ago to bottle. What are the chances of it being drinkable? The carboy sat undisturbed in my basement (very cool) over a Canadian winter - temp under 19 degrees centigrade most definitely. A related question would be - what, if any, would be the ill effects (affects?) of drinking this or any "bad" beer? Also, what should I be looking for to determine if a beer should or shouldn't or couldn't be imbibed? ie, what smells and sights should I look out for? Thanks for any and all help. Roger Selby (selbyrog at uregina1, selbyr at ureginav) p.s. Is rinsing with a sodium metabisulphate solution sufficient to sterilize bottles, equipment, carboys, etc..? Return to table of contents
Date: 4 May 92 16:32:00 PST From: John Fitzgerald <johnf at ccgate.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM> Subject: question about mash conversion Hello fellow HBD'ers, Having just started to include mashing as part of my brewing process, I have come across a question I'm hoping some of you more experienced NET'ers might be able to answer. I think I got pretty good starch conversion, but iodine testing didn't give me the specific answer "YES, you are done" that I was looking for. What I'm wondering is what would happen if the starch hadn't converted to suger? Would sparging still result in a specific gravity close to a normal one? Would I end up with a beer with lots of unfermentables, not much alcohol, and flavor somewhat similar to wallpaper paste? Any insight is welcome and appreciated. John. johnf at npg-sd.sandiego.ncr.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 07:51:24 EDT From: sfw at trionix.com (Scott Weintraub) Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #876 (May 05, 1992) Does anyone know where one might obtain treacle in the US? I want to make a close approximation of Old Peculier, and apparently need treacle. Thanks... --Scott Weintraub Return to table of contents
Date: 05 May 92 07:47:58 EDT From: CHUCKM at csg3.Prime.COM Dear HBDers.... Here is what I have been doing to re-use yeast. I would appreciate any comments/advice, etc you might have.. During primary ferment at high kruesen I fill a mason jar with wort and store it in the fridge. (jar has been sanitized with a chlorine soak). This way the work is filled with active yeast. A day or so before I am going to brew I take the jar out of the fridge and let it warm to room temp. I make up a starter ( a pint or so of boiled wort) and add the contents of the the mason jar. Within 12 hours or so the starter has a 'head' and I know that the yeast is active. So far I have used this technique with wyeast 1007. I have stored it in my fridge for up to a few weeks but don't think longer storage would be a problem. I am on my fourth batch with the same yeast and have had no problems nor noticed anything bad happening. One thing I did notice is that when opening the mason jar before adding to the starter I may have a sour smell (rotten eggs). This may be due to the the trapped gasses in the jar since the yeast was active when stored. I used it anyway with no problems. This method was recommended to me by my local brew supply shop. chuckm at csg3.prime.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 May 92 13:56:25 EDT From: lee_menegoni at ptltd.com Subject: Strange smelling Lager I have brewed ales for the past 2 years. I have a second refridgerator now and just begun brewing lagers, 2 batches, both seem to suffer from the same problem. After bottling they have a strange odor, the taste is fine. I use a refridgerator and Hunter Air Stat for a temperature controlled environment to brew in. The odor reminds me of the smell inside the refrigerator when I check on the brew during primary fermentation. I use partial mash recipes, is this be like a cake mix with scratch frosting? , rack off the trub, ferment in glass and use liquid yeast, WYeast Bavarian. I begin fermentation at 55 once active I step it down a degree per day to 50 after 15 to 20 days I rack into a glass secondary for lagering at 40 for 6 to 8 weeks. When it was time to bottle I tried to produce a starter culture from the slurry I retained from the primary, no luck. I then purchased a new pak of Bavarian yeast and made a starter culture. I poured about 15% of this and 3/4 cups corn sugar which was disolved in water and boiled for 5 minutes into the beer and bottled. Two weeks later I tried the brew and it has this strange smell. The other 85% of the starter was used in my second batch similar recipe same fermentation process same bottling process same smell. Batch 3 is fermenting and needs to be bottled soon any ideas on what is causing this smell? How can I eliminate it in subsequent batches? I added the yeast to the beer at bottling time per the suggestion in the Noonan book on brewing lagers where he states that after long cold lagering the yeast may be very weak and a small population needs to be added for carbonation. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 1992 05:45:36 PDT From: Crawford.Wbst129 at xerox.com Subject: Calcium Cloride A while back I believe there was a discussion on where to get Calcium Chloride. What was the final outcome? Does anybody know where to buy Calcium Choride? Thanks, Greg Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 10:05:23 EDT From: rossini%hsph at harvard.harvard.edu (Anthony Rossini) Subject: Raspberry Ale Thanks to all who sent in information. Seeing as that the ale is now 5 days in the bottle, I thought I'd describe what I ended up doing (being from the "I think that I'll add some more of that stuff" school of HB'ing, amounts are probably +/- a bit... :-).): 5 lbs M&F light syrup 1/2 lb crystal (added in with water, removed just before boiling) 1 1/2 oz Cascade for boiling, 1/2 oz at the last 3 minutes of the boil 24oz frozen raspberries added right after I turned off the stove OG about 1.039 Sat a week in the primary. Added 24oz more frozen raspberries into the secondary, then added the wort (beer?). Didn't worry about sulfiting or other forms of berry sanitizing... Sat 2 weeks in the secondary. FG about 1.010 So anyhow, 5 days later, I think that I might've put in more malt, maybe 1-2 more pounds. It is a light beer, plenty of berry flavor and smell, a nice red color, and also tastes quite good (though I should qualify that by saying that while I enjoy great beers, I've never turned down swill, either...). Anyhow, a bit more hops might've been nice, but definitely not necessary, as someone suggested to me. More berries might've over-powered the beer flavor, but increasing berries with malt would probably give a decent full beer (I should state that I was looking for something on the light/refreshing side, not too complex!) Anyway, back to work... -tony p.s. another possibility would've been a wheat rasp beer... maybe next time... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 1992 10:07:56 -0400 (EDT) From: R_GELINAS at UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas) Subject: yeast, NA Couple of questions: First, for Jeff F., in your yeast cleaning directions, step 4 says to agitate the water/yeast/trub mixture "until obvious separation is noticeable" and then to pour off the yeast in suspension. Is this a quick process, or should the jar sit for a while to separate? The second question has to do with distillation and NA beer. I thought that a danger with heat distillation, as JackS. does with his NA beer, is that alcohols more dangerous than ethyl can be produced. Will keeping it to 170 degF max. avoid that problem? Are the "bad" alcohols produced by a (enough heat + ethyl) reaction? Russ Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 1992 10:32 EST From: Carol Miller-Tutzauer <RIACMT at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu> Subject: Growing hops From: riacmt at ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Carol Miller-Tutzauer) Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing Subject: Growing hops Date: 5 May 1992 10:04 EST Distribution: world Ok... my husband is the homebrewer; I'm the gardener. He wants to grow hops, but keeps procrastinating on getting information I need for getting them started. So, here are some questions. The more I can get answered the better, but I'll muddle through even if y'all can't answer everything. 1. Growing pattern -- I understand they are vines. Is it preferable to have them grow straight up? I could set up tall poles driven into the ground about a foot or so. Is this the preferable way to grow them? Also, we have vinyl siding (very rough) on the house. Will they grow up the side of the house on their own? 2. When should they be planted? We are in New York (Buffalo). Do they need to go into the ground soon? And how long before we can expect harvesting? Will they even bear hops the first year? 3. Light requirements -- For growing in New York state, how many hours of sunlight per day are required? Is this direct sunlight or is indirect ok? Does amount of sunlight affect yields? 4. Soil requirements -- Anyone know the preferred soil PH level? 5. Root (rhizome) depth -- how much depth of soil do I need to provide for the hop plants? 6. Recommended planting distance -- how far apart should I plant them. I gather they grow side to side. Would growing one plant per 1/2 whiskey-barrel planter work? These are about 18 inches deep and about 2 ft in diameter. We could then move them mid-day to give them more sun. 7. Fertilization schedule? Anyone have any suggestions on this? I usually put a layer of manure down, then soil, then plant. About the time the plant's roots get down to the manure layer, it is the right time for a little food boost. I know bulbs also like some food below their roots. I have never grown rhizomes before, so I'm clueless here. 8. How many should we plant? I realize yields probably won't be great the first year, but what do you all say about someone who brews approximately 1 batch every 1 or 2 weeks? 9. How do you "winter" the hop plants? Let die then cover with straw? Bring inside? Let dry out or trim down? Give them a fertilizer boost before wintering? 10. Watering requirements -- (Almost forgot this one.) Do you need well-draining soil? How often should you water? Generally I make a ring-like pit around plants that will hold and cradle water. I also mulch so as to retain water. (I use straw.) Is this a reasonable strategy? You can send to the digest or email. I will keep an eye on this digest for the next week or so. (By the way, my husband -- and the guilty procrastinator -- is Frank Tutzauer! Are you out there, Frank?) Carol Homebrew widow ;-) email: riacmt at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 05 May 92 08:34:20 -0700 From: mcnally at wsl.dec.com Subject: MBC yeast It's been a while since I've tried Eye of the Hawk, but I seriously doubt that the yeast is anything at all like the Chimay culture. It's hard to tell yeast by appearance. The Chimay culture is supposedly five different strains of yeast. I've always had success reculturing it (I've got some bubbling away now). _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- Mike McNally mcnally at wsl.dec.com Digital Equipment Corporation Western Software Lab Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 10:44:19 EDT From: eisen at kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) Subject: Hop restraint (yeah, I know, ankle weights) I haven't enough experience to answer this, and the books don't mention it. How far down into the ground would I have to stick metal or plastic dividers to keep my hops from spreading too far? Does the rhizome stay fairly near the surface? Is the rhizome a continuous structure? Would blocking the rhizome be enough to do the job? Carl WISL,BM. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 13:49:34 -0300 From: pgsjay at atlas.cs.upei.ca (Scott Jay) Subject: Beer - of course! A few people I work with and myself have formed a brewing association - F.A.B. (Forestry Association of Brewers). Most of us are fairly new to the art of brewing, so we do have some questions. I have been receiving this digest for about two weeks and, although most of it really does not pertain to us (we are CAKE MIX BREWERS!) it is certainly interesting. Who knows, we may someday make a SCRATCH CAKE! Anyway, we thought we'd try to find the answer to a question that we've pondered over for quite awhile. :-) It may be a FAQ but here it is anyway: What is the difference between different types of beer (i.e. lager, ale, pilsner, draft, etc.). Thanks. p.s. If you are planning a trip to the most popular vacation spot in North America, Prince Edward Island, Canada, this fall we are tentatively planning an Octoberfest for Home Brewers (obviously some time in October). Let me know. Scott pgsjay at atlas.cs.upei.ca Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 1992 18:00 EST From: ZAPPULLA%MIDD.BITNET at mitvma.mit.edu Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #876 (May 05, 1992) TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST TODAY!!! zappulla at midd.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 16:05:24 -0600 From: David Suda <suda at barley.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Summary: mead question responses A couple weeks ago my friend Susanne asked me to post several mead making questions to the HBD. Thanks to everyone who replied. Susanne's article has been accepted by Zymurgy and is scheduled for publication in the Fall issue. Here's a summary of the responses we received: * What flavor/aroma/clarity trade-offs have you experienced for boiling vs. not boiling the honey? The consensus was that boiling results in a mead which clears rapidly and ferments well, but at the cost of most of the honey aroma. While unboiled meads retain more honey aromatics, they can take a very long time to clear. Irish moss helps in the clarification of both boiled and unboiled meads. * What type of honey is best for making a smooth traditional mead? What type of honey is best for making a melomel or metheglin with "character"? This question appears to have as many answers as there are meadmakers. Some favor lightly flavored honeys (such as clover and alfalfa) for tradition meads to produce a delicate bouquet and strongly flavored honeys (such as wildflower or orange blossom) to balance the fruits and spices in melomels and metheglins. Others like an assertive honey flavor in traditional mead and use mild honey for flavored mead so that the fruit and/or spices are not masked. In any case, honey should have a flavor you like and be as fresh as possible. As honey ages, chemical changes make is less desirable for mead making. * What is the most attenuative yeast? How does the attenuation of various yeasts compare? Prisse de Mousse appears to be one of the most attenuative yeasts available. Charts comparing the attenuation and other characteristics of various yeasts will accompany the Zymurgy article. * What water additives do you use and why? Why add gypsum? Most meadmakers add yeast nutrients to speed fermentation and acidity or tannin to balance the sweetness of the honey. The article will present details about various nutrient blends. The amount of acid or tannin to add is a matter of taste. Sources of acidity include acid blend and lemon juice; tea is often used as a source of tannin. In mead, gypsum is probably not needed. In wort, Ca++ reacts with phosphates to lower the Ph. Since honey contains a much lower concentration of phosphates than malted barley, this doesn't work. * What are some good regional honey suppliers? Several people recommended health food stores and farmer's markets as good sources for fresh, unpasturized honey. Once again, thanks to everyone who responded. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 5 May 92 18:43:31 CDT From: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Dave Beedle) Subject: AHA Conference - Need a roomie!? Hi all! I have a friend who is looking for a room mate for the AHA National Conference on the 10th through the 13th. He has reservations already but no roomie. If you are interested drop me some email and I can let him know, give him your phone number, etc, or drop me some email and I can give you his phone number. TTFN - -- Dave Beedle Office of Academic Computing Illinois State University Internet: dbeedle at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu 136A Julian Hall "Relax! Don't worry! Have Homebrew!" Normal, IL 61761 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 May 92 09:34:46 -0500 From: ks25!mark at decwrl.dec.com Subject: Grolsch bottle gaskets I am planning on bottling a batch this weekend using for the first time some Grolsch type bottles (actually Fischer's bottles), that I have accumulated over the last couple of months. I seem to recall seeing in an article on HBD that one should replace the gaskets on such bottles before using them the first time. Is the true? If so what is the reason for it? Thanks Mark mark at ks25.chi.il.us OR decwrl!ks25!mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 6 May 1992 01:53:51 -0400 From: andrew mossberg / mthvax admin <aem at umigw.miami.edu> Subject: MTHVAX ARCHIVES The archives at mthvax will be ending soon, and the gatewaying of the homebrew digest to rec.crafts.brewing will also cease. sorry, aem Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #877, 05/06/92