From mavityre at comcast.net Thu Dec 7 18:58:09 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:58:09 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> Hello folks. It's been a year or so. I'm back into making cheese again. Brian From ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz Fri Dec 8 00:39:53 2006 From: ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz (Ubonsri) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:39:53 +1300 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Hello Friends, That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > Hello folks. > It's been a year or so. > I'm back into making cheese again. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/6832eae5/attachment-0002.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 01:10:39 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:10:39 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207220716.019534d0@comcast.net> Wow. What's happened since I've been gone? It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share bleu cheese's with others. Tends to crossover to the others............ Brian At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: >Hello Friends, > >That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > >Ubonsri > >On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061207/ce2c9f9a/attachment-0002.html From ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz Fri Dec 8 03:25:33 2006 From: ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz (Ubonsri) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 21:25:33 +1300 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207220716.019534d0@comcast.net> References: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Well, I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > Wow. > What's happened since I've been gone? > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share > bleu cheese's with others. > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > Brian > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > Hello Friends, > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > Ubonsri > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/1500cf3c/attachment-0002.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 11:04:14 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:04:14 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208080124.019c9c28@comcast.net> I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. I give up on the bleu cheeses. These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. Brian At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/30ef3214/attachment-0002.html From mstaver at kendall.edu Fri Dec 8 11:39:38 2006 From: mstaver at kendall.edu (Michael J. Staver) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:39:38 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back Message-ID: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendall.edu> If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist after 9 months? Michael ________________________________ From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM To: The Cheese Makers' Digest Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. I give up on the bleu cheeses. These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. Brian At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: Well, I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > Wow. > What's happened since I've been gone? > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share > bleu cheese's with others. > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > Brian > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > Hello Friends, > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > Ubonsri > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/bf4bd8f7/attachment-0002.html From patrickmann at hotmail.com Fri Dec 8 12:13:38 2006 From: patrickmann at hotmail.com (Patrick Mann) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:13:38 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) Message-ID: My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=wl_wlmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/7d874347/attachment-0002.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 13:02:39 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:02:39 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendal l.edu> References: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendall.edu> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208095820.01953ca8@comcast.net> I don't know. I haven't been doing it long enough. I think it wasn't humid enough. Brian At 08:39 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C71AE7.74714326" > >If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist >after 9 months? Michael > > >---------- >From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On >Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity >Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM >To: The Cheese Makers' Digest >Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back > >I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I >just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 >months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. >I give up on the bleu cheeses. >These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. > >Brian > > > >At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: > >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ea1f96be/attachment-0002.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 13:03:57 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:03:57 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208100256.019a42e8@comcast.net> I have the same problem. I have heard about some stuff you can brush on it before you wax it. Also, it could be that it has too much moisture still in it. Brian At 09:13 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. >Any tips on how to prevent this? >Thanks, > Patrick > > >---------- >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day >trial! >Learn >more! >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/d4484aa0/attachment-0002.html From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Fri Dec 8 13:02:56 2006 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (kathy) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:02:56 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: Message-ID: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> Patrick, Try a little potassium sorbate solution. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/e5e6216d/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 16:14:46 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:14:46 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> kathy wrote: > Patrick, > > Try a little potassium sorbate solution. That's interesting and I wonder what the mechanism involved is. On the other hand, one of the problems I see is the paranoia about burning down the house by heating wax to a temperature that can go a long way in preventing mold. Melting in a double boiler and/or brushing on with a brush is simply coating it with wax. If the wax is heated to 200F or more and the cheese submerged in this for about ten seconds, the surface is effectively sterilized or at least "sanitized" as they say in brewing. This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Fri Dec 8 16:38:30 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:38:30 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> Message-ID: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? Are you referring to the burn damage or something that should be watched out for in terms of cheesemaking and the quality of the cheese? Thanks, Doug On Dec 8, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 19:01:43 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:01:43 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> Message-ID: <4579FCE7.5070000@mc.net> Doug Snyder wrote: > When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? I am referring to possibility of the cheese slipping out of your hand and dropping into the hot wax, splashing this all over the place including your face. If you dip half of it into the wax, it is pretty easy to hang on to but the next dip (after cooling) has you holding onto the waxed side which can be slippery. I find that latex gloves give a pretty good grip on it. The safest method is to put the cheese into some sort of basket and dip the whole thing. I have used a steamer basket which works but I prefer the double dipping and just concentrate on hanging on and the disaster if I let it slip. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Fri Dec 8 20:15:02 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:15:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: Message-ID: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Some possibilities to ruminate on: 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by mechanical damage. 2. May have pin holes in wax coating when applied to cheese. Solutions: use colored wax to see unwaxed areas better and wax two times for a better seal 3. If reusing wax, must be hot enough to kill all mold cantaminations in the wax 4. Wax temperature too low to kill mold contaminations on cheese surface Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ad7c415e/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 23:53:29 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:53:29 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <457A4149.2050608@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > Some possibilities to ruminate on: > > > 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, > therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by > mechanical damage. According to Kozikowski, paraffin allows needed gas transfer and cheese wax does not. He recommends dipping in very hot paraffin and ripening for the first 30 days or so and then dipping in a more permanent (and pretty) cheese wax. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From dwturco at mhcable.com Sat Dec 9 11:48:04 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:48:04 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hoegger Goat Supply sells a cream wax that claims to prevent mold. Here's an exerpt from the online store. "Available for the first time to the home cheesemaker. Cream wax acts as a mold inhibitor on all hard cheeses. Simply hand apply a thin coating on the outside surface of your finished hard cheeses and allow to air dry thoroughly. Then cover with regular cheese wax. You'll never have to worry about mold spoiling your valuable hard cheese again." dt -----Original Message----- From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org]On Behalf Of cheese-request at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:35 PM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to cheese at hbd.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cheese-request at hbd.org You can reach the person managing the list at cheese-owner at hbd.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." Today's Topics: 1. mold (the bad kind) (Patrick Mann) 2. Re: I'm back (Brian N. Mavity) 3. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Brian N. Mavity) 4. Re: mold (the bad kind) (kathy) 5. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Jack Schmidling) 6. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Doug Snyder) 7. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Jack Schmidling) 8. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Calvin Gadbury) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:13:38 -0800 From: Patrick Mann Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=wl_wlmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/7d874347/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:02:39 -0800 From: "Brian N. Mavity" Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208095820.01953ca8 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't know. I haven't been doing it long enough. I think it wasn't humid enough. Brian At 08:39 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C71AE7.74714326" > >If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist >after 9 months? Michael > > >---------- >From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On >Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity >Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM >To: The Cheese Makers' Digest >Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back > >I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I >just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 >months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. >I give up on the bleu cheeses. >These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. > >Brian > > > >At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: > >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ea1f96be/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:03:57 -0800 From: "Brian N. Mavity" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208100256.019a42e8 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have the same problem. I have heard about some stuff you can brush on it before you wax it. Also, it could be that it has too much moisture still in it. Brian At 09:13 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. >Any tips on how to prevent this? >Thanks, > Patrick > > >---------- >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day >trial! >Learn >more! >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/d4484aa0/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:02:56 -0600 From: "kathy" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0 at aoldsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Patrick, Try a little potassium sorbate solution. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/e5e6216d/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:14:46 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <4579D5C6.6070905 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed kathy wrote: > Patrick, > > Try a little potassium sorbate solution. That's interesting and I wonder what the mechanism involved is. On the other hand, one of the problems I see is the paranoia about burning down the house by heating wax to a temperature that can go a long way in preventing mold. Melting in a double boiler and/or brushing on with a brush is simply coating it with wax. If the wax is heated to 200F or more and the cheese submerged in this for about ten seconds, the surface is effectively sterilized or at least "sanitized" as they say in brewing. This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:38:30 -0800 From: "Doug Snyder" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476 at swlaw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? Are you referring to the burn damage or something that should be watched out for in terms of cheesemaking and the quality of the cheese? Thanks, Doug On Dec 8, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:01:43 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <4579FCE7.5070000 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Doug Snyder wrote: > When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? I am referring to possibility of the cheese slipping out of your hand and dropping into the hot wax, splashing this all over the place including your face. If you dip half of it into the wax, it is pretty easy to hang on to but the next dip (after cooling) has you holding onto the waxed side which can be slippery. I find that latex gloves give a pretty good grip on it. The safest method is to put the cheese into some sort of basket and dip the whole thing. I have used a steamer basket which works but I prefer the double dipping and just concentrate on hanging on and the disaster if I let it slip. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:15:02 -0500 From: "Calvin Gadbury" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce at youro0kwkw9jwc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some possibilities to ruminate on: 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by mechanical damage. 2. May have pin holes in wax coating when applied to cheese. Solutions: use colored wax to see unwaxed areas better and wax two times for a better seal 3. If reusing wax, must be hot enough to kill all mold cantaminations in the wax 4. Wax temperature too low to kill mold contaminations on cheese surface Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ad7c415e/attachment.htm l ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061209/763ee930/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Sat Dec 9 11:57:44 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 10:57:44 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457AEB08.40002@mc.net> Dave Turco wrote: > Hoegger Goat Supply sells a cream wax that claims to prevent mold. Here's > an exerpt from the online store. Save your money. It does not work. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 9 15:02:17 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:02:17 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> <457A4149.2050608@mc.net> Message-ID: <008901c71bcc$ee8ec200$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Agreed: For those who would like to look it up for themselves: It is in Cheese and Fermented Mild Foods by Frank V. Kozikowski, second edition, third printing on pages 647-649. For those who don't have access to the above and are interested I have quoted the main points below: "Paraffin wax is customarily appled to young cheese encased in cloth bandages at a temperature of 118 degrees C for 5 seconds. Cheese paraffin wax loses some water, but at a much lower rate than unwaxed cheese. Carbon dioxide, Hydrogen sulfide and other gases can diffuse through the wax." "Other forms of wax are available. One (Kozikwoski names these flexible waxes, some call cheese waxes, they have divers working temperatures) is applied over the first paraffin wax layer, usually for long hold, ripened cheeses. Compared to paraffin wax, this second form of wax displays more flexibility and a lower water vapor transmission. However, it does not provide as rapid a CO2 passage. This is an important factor which limits its use in the early period of ripening when Carbon dioxide is produced most extensively. The second wax layer lor long hold cheese is often applied after 30 days or longer, using the same principles and precautions for paraffin wax." "A third form is a low temperature, flexible type. It is used for 5 to 10 gift wheels... Cheese is dipped into this wax at about 80 degrees C for 6 seconds, which does not give it the same protection against mold as the other two forms of wax... Limiting the cheese dipping to 6 seconds prevents fat oiling-off and discoloration... Bubbles of air and mold growth under cheese wax surfaces are prevented by waxing only cheese which has dry surfaces, and by using the maximum recommended heating temperatures for wax." He also has a table to go with the above that repeats and elaborates on the above I won't repeat here, but the main points for protection against mold under the wax are: Wax only cheese with dry surface Heat wax to 118C (245F) Immerse in wax for 5 to 6 seconds Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) > Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Some possibilities to ruminate on: > > > > > > 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, > > therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by > > mechanical damage. > > According to Kozikowski, paraffin allows needed gas transfer and cheese > wax does not. > > He recommends dipping in very hot paraffin and ripening for the first 30 > days or so and then dipping in a more permanent (and pretty) cheese wax. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From dwturco at mhcable.com Sat Dec 9 18:59:28 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 18:59:28 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My problem is the texture of all my cheeses. They are more crumbly then creamy. I've tried everything including the powdered milk with heavy cream. Don't know what to do next except try to get my hands on fresh milk. Any suggestions? From dairyl at drenik.net Sun Dec 10 12:05:35 2006 From: dairyl at drenik.net (Milos Bogdanovic) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 17:05:35 -0000 Subject: [Cheese] (no subject) Message-ID: <000a01c71c7d$6b8fe2b0$eb62c8d4@PC> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061210/47a71d16/attachment-0002.html From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 13:27:44 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:27:44 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream Message-ID: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? I realize this may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? Thanks for the advice. Scott From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Mon Dec 11 21:28:46 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:28:46 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem References: Message-ID: <013901c71d95$40fbe0d0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Dave If crumbly and dry. Can be: 1. Not enough rennet. 2. Cutting curd to small. 3. Rough stirring. 4. If curd scalded, scalding temp. to high.. 5. When pressed, initial pressure too high. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Turco" To: Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem > My problem is the texture of all my cheeses. They are more crumbly then > creamy. I've tried everything including the powdered milk with heavy cream. > Don't know what to do next except try to get my hands on fresh milk. Any > suggestions? > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From arf at mc.net Mon Dec 11 23:38:34 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:38:34 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream In-Reply-To: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> References: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <457E324A.8040905@mc.net> bobobrazil10 wrote: > I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that > had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked > like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to > try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? Not a chance but taste it... you might like it but you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. > I realize this > may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? Right and it's not dumb at all. Just a sign of a thinking brain that just needs a little more data to work it out and that's what the list provides. If it was pasteurized cream it is probably spoiled as opposed to sour. Sour cream is ripened with specific bacteria that makes it taste good. If it was pasteurized and ripened, it is more likely than not ripened with something that will not make it taste or even smell good. If you like the smell, taste it... who knows but it will not be Brie. Read my recipe for Brie/Camembert to get an idea of what is involved in making a cheese. Keep thinking... js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elianeal at copper.net Tue Dec 12 12:53:14 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:53:14 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Message-ID: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/76f58dc9/attachment-0002.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Tue Dec 12 12:57:37 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream References: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <015301c71e17$03ad5240$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Scott, Micogorganisms are the fastest mutating forms of life on the planet, so there is always some type of opportunity popping up for the venturer to take advantage of. Let us know what happens. Remember though, for each new bacteria or mold strain that might make a new cheese, there is one that might make the venturer sick. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobobrazil10" To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 1:27 PM Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream > I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that > had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked > like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to > try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? I realize this > may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? > Thanks for the advice. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Tue Dec 12 12:57:55 2006 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (kathy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:57:55 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <014301c71e17$0d8130c0$6601a8c0@SBC> Elizabeth, I am jealous...I'd love to have access to fresh goat milk. My dad was in the dairy industry most of his life...his company manufactured coagulants, enzymes and the like. I'll pose your question to him, but I think he's out of town, so it may take a few days. I'd actually like to get him on this list, but he's not the most computer literate person. Regards, Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/df089514/attachment-0002.html From kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us Tue Dec 12 13:03:25 2006 From: kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us (Nancy Krogh) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:03:25 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <001301c71e17$d1cc3290$0535630a@WVLCCIRC> hello, we make raw milk cheese form cows milk. ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/40db0fc0/attachment-0002.html From kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us Tue Dec 12 13:06:08 2006 From: kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us (Nancy Krogh) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <002901c71e18$32d9c750$0535630a@WVLCCIRC> sorry i cut myself off ! YES YES YOU CAN MAKE HARD CHEESE! Although i am not sure about goats . They all tell you to psteurize , i think there is a reason Louis Pasteure was run out of France !!!!! they don't hardly pasteurize anyhting!!!! ha ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/51a6cb70/attachment-0002.html From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Tue Dec 12 13:12:18 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: Hi there, I make cheese from raw goat's milk. I have made the softer cheeses also, but am about to embark on hard cheeses. I'm not at home now, so I don't have my French goat cheese book, but pasteurization has only been around, well, since Pasteur, I suppose. People have been making cheese, hard and soft, without pasteurization forever. In France, they still do in many places. Actually, you can buy raw milk hard cheeses these days (as long as they are aged, I think, 60 days) in the U.S. You do not have to pasteurize, as long as you are comfortable with the risks (you can look those up). I happen to be comfortable with the risks. I likely wouldn't serve the cheese to a pregnant woman, and in U.S. you shouldn't sell those cheeses without proper licenses, but for your consumption, you should be fine. Oh, and raw milk cheese tastes better too (but you know that). Best, Joseph On Dec 12, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody > make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would > prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk > raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this > for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/6297eb69/attachment-0002.html From dwturco at mhcable.com Tue Dec 12 18:16:03 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dwturco) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:16:03 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Crumbly & Dry Message-ID: <20061213005129.3CE05E72A0@smtp2.mhcable.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/4fe01d24/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Tue Dec 12 22:57:30 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:57:30 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <457F7A2A.6020008@mc.net> Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody > make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer > to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for > chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard > cheeses. Fresh milk has the potential to produce better cheese because of the natural flora and fauna. Fresh milk can contain pathogenic organisms along with the good stuff so if there is any doubt, it should be Pasteurized, especially for fresh cheese. Aging hard cheese reduces the likelihood that the bad stuff will survive so it is far safer than fresh cheese. If you have survived your fresh cheese efforts and drink the milk that way, it would indicate that the milk is probably safe. Use fresh milk exactly like you would use pasteurized milk except that you can dispense with the calcium chloride but you still must use the usual starters to assure the timely acidification. The natural stuff will still be there to add character as it ages. You might also find that your goat milk is lacking in butterfat for a nice smooth cheese so try upping the level by adding extra cream if you can separate it. Good luck, js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Tue Dec 12 23:32:15 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:32:15 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] raw milk Message-ID: <200612130433.kBD4WVk8015412@brew.hbd.org>

Hi,
I am new to the conversation, and have a question.  Does anybody make
cheese from raw fresh milk?  I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep
the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which
works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses.  Most of
the recipes say to pasteurize.

Thanks.
Elizabeth

Greetings. Below are comments that are on my website www.moonwiseherbs.com regarding raw milk cheese making. I have a cheese page with a recipe for a farmers cheese that is great made with goat milk. This cheese is a fresh hard cheese, if you will. It is a good place to start-you can go to the page for the recipe: http://moonwiseherbs.com/cheesepage.htm Hope that is helpful. Linda

 Historically all cheese was made with farm fresh raw milk. There is a growing desire and movement that is incorporating farm fresh raw milk back into the American diet. Many people are coming to understand that pasteurization destroys nutrients and creates a product that is not easily digested. If you would like to read more about the health benefits of raw milk and/or find a source for raw milk in your area see www.realmilk.com. 

Also remember that not all raw milk is the same. If you are milking your own animals-you know what the conditions of your milk are. If you are purchasing milk become an informed consumer.  Read about best farm practices and interview the farmer you are purchasing milk from. Visit and tour the farm, make sure the farm is clean and that the animals are being let out to pasture. Be sure the farmer drinks the milk and that it is strained shortly after milking. 

As I started making cheese, I realized that it is impossible to make decent cheese from the milk you purchase in the store. If you are nervous about raw milk and want to make cheese the best luck you will have is with low heat pasteurized milk. Most milk is high heat or ultra-pasteurized, although some organic producers do low heat pasteurize. Just call the company and they should be happy to tell you what their practices are.

Pasteurization: particularly high heat pasteurization destroys proteins and leaves very little to coagulate or curdle-this is why enzymes and calcium chloride are added in the cheese making process when pasteurized milk is used. When I contemplate this I imagine that food which has been destroyed to this extent cannot be healthful. Most cheese makers are adding ingredients to help pasteurize milk coagulate, when raw milk has all it needs to form a nice curd and a flavorful product as well as eliminate unwanted bacteria.  

I would also occasionally purchase "raw milk" cheese. One day I was at a local farmers market talking to a vendor who was selling "raw milk" cheese and she informed me that they actually do low heat pasteurize the milk and that legally they can label their product "raw milk" cheese. Not all producers do this, many small artisan producers do make truly raw milk cheese, but many of the larger scale producers (even organic) are using this practice. If the cheese is not pasteurized it is required that it be aged for at least 60 days (theoretically the acid level would be high enough at this point to eliminate potentially harmful bacteria). Fresh cheese (not aged) that is made with raw milk cannot be purchased.

In order to know what is in the cheese that I eat I have decided to make most of my own cheese and only on occasion selectively purchase cheese from small artisans cheese makers. So that said I make all of my cheese fresh as well as aged from farm fresh raw milk.


 

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Tue Dec 12 23:37:54 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:37:54 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Brie? Message-ID: <200612130438.kBD4cE7a015615@brew.hbd.org>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:27:44 -0500
From: bobobrazil10
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream
To: cheese at hbd.org
Message-ID: <457DA320.8010601 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I'm a neophyte cheese maker.  Today I found some old heavy cream that
had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months.  It looked

like sour cream, but smelled like Brie.  Is there a good reason not to
try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie?  I realize this
may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? 
Thanks for the advice.

Scott

If this smells and tastes good, you can make cheese from it. While it would not be Brie, it could turn out to be something really good. And it is true pasteurized milk, cream, milk products that are not cultured rot. But if this is cultured it might very well be your very own creation that turns out to be delicious. Don't be afraid to experiment!

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From Wailingcoyote at aol.com Wed Dec 13 08:12:10 2006 From: Wailingcoyote at aol.com (Wailingcoyote@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:12:10 EST Subject: [Cheese] Brie? Message-ID: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> I WANT THESE "CHESE" EM'S TO STOP --- STOP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/09821700/attachment-0002.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Wed Dec 13 08:54:48 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:54:48 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <004201c71ebe$dfe82120$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Elizabeth, Yes, we make cheese from raw milk. Pateurization has its place and has saved alot of illness. But remember pasteurization is not sterilization and does not kill all the mircoorganisms, most people swear they are the same thing and the dairy industry does nothing to discourage this belief. Pasteurization lowers the bacteria numbers to number level that is below the threshold number that will cause illness in most of the population. So if a person practices good hygiene "to the maximum" when harvesting his cheese milk he can be nearly as pathogenic free as what is gotten at the store. One micro I am some what leary of is the Listeria group. An inffection of this group has a reputation of causing death in infants yet to be born. Listeria is a cold loving bacterium and multiplies readily at 40 F. This is a special case where it is best if raw milk is turned in to cheese right away, it safest. We make our cheeses as soon as we bring the milk in from the barn possible. About the time we get it ready for innoculation the milk temperature is 86 F. I put it in a double boiler with 86 F water and I don't have to turn on the stove till after renneting and cutting. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/86161aa1/attachment-0002.html From Wailingcoyote at aol.com Wed Dec 13 09:05:15 2006 From: Wailingcoyote at aol.com (Wailingcoyote@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:05:15 EST Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Message-ID: GO TO H--L -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/06ac4f51/attachment-0002.html From hollen at woodsprite.com Wed Dec 13 10:43:28 2006 From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:43:28 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: >GO TO H--L >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not be allowed on the internet. From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Wed Dec 13 11:02:28 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:02:28 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> Message-ID: <8611819A-BC38-44AA-840B-AB8CF565B286@earthlink.net> I second that emotion. On Dec 13, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Dion Hollenbeck wrote: > At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: >> GO TO H--L >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the > information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the > link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not > be allowed on the internet. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Wed Dec 13 12:54:46 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:54:46 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Brie? In-Reply-To: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> References: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> Message-ID: I want a pony. Doug On Dec 13, 2006, at 5:12 AM, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: I WANT THESE "CHESE" EM'S TO STOP --- STOP _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/c5224ba4/attachment-0002.html From ssarge2 at owc.net Wed Dec 13 18:11:28 2006 From: ssarge2 at owc.net (SS2) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:11:28 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) Message-ID: <001701c71f0c$06236500$6400a8c0@cssuvjea4qmy3w> IN that guy's defense. I unsubscribed but continued to get the emails. They've actually been interesting lately and informative so I'm glad my "unsubscribing didn't work. Everyone here seems so nice and accomodating. Extend that to this guy. Consider it your holiday gift to him.(or her?) Wishing everyone here a wonderful, safe holiday and a prosperous, healthy and "cheesey" New Year. Susie On 12/13/2006 10:02:28 AM, Joseph Steuer (joseph.steuer at earthlink.net) wrote: > I second that emotion. > On Dec 13, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Dion Hollenbeck wrote: > > > At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: > >> GO TO H--L > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cheese mailing list > >> Cheese at hbd.org > >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the > > information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the > > link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not > > be allowed on the internet. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/47593729/attachment-0002.html From reich_stuff at yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 19:13:08 2006 From: reich_stuff at yahoo.com (Steven Reich) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:13:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Please remove me from the list Message-ID: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> Please remove me from the list From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Wed Dec 13 19:26:26 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:26:26 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Please remove me from the list In-Reply-To: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here's the link: http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese Go there and enter your info and if you still get emails after a couple days let us know. Doug On Dec 13, 2006, at 4:13 PM, Steven Reich wrote: Please remove me from the list _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From elianeal at copper.net Thu Dec 14 20:52:38 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:52:38 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing Message-ID: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. Happy Christmas! Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061214/5281e5c3/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 15 00:35:43 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:35:43 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing In-Reply-To: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Message-ID: <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> Elizabeth Cameron wrote: Another thing I was wondering about is whether you > (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of > waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, > compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then what is the point... might as well eat it. It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From ggilks at hughes.net Fri Dec 15 06:30:09 2006 From: ggilks at hughes.net (ggilks) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:30:09 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Message-ID: <005d01c7203c$64d892b0$0200a8c0@yourm5d4u9r2uv> We have Jersey cows and I make cheese from raw milk all the time. Also cream cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc,etc. It is wonderful. Happy Holidays Ina ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. Happy Christmas! Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061215/f869df0c/attachment-0002.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Fri Dec 15 09:58:13 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:58:13 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> Message-ID: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Jack Wrote: > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > js > > Jack and All Others, Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. He mentions Parakote Wrappers;? Cello-Cello-Parakote Lamination? Cryovac? Calvin From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 15 12:32:08 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:32:08 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing In-Reply-To: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <4582DC18.2020604@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > Jack and All Others, > > Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in > Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. Not I. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 21:47:00 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:47:00 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] CaCl2-What's it for? Message-ID: <45835E24.1060205@yahoo.com> Why do many cheese recipes ask for Calcium Chloride to be added? Does rennet require it? Does dry milk powder have enough CaCl2 in it to avoid needing to add more? My batches of milk seem to produce nice looking curd without adding extra calcium. Will this ruin the cheese 1 month later? Scott From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Dec 16 00:53:49 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese Message-ID: <200612160554.kBG5s4WX028440@brew.hbd.org>

The best way to cure cheese is to "bandagle" it or wrap it in oiled cheese cloth. When I have done this and put it in my root cellar I get great results, it gets moldy on the outside, but inside it is just as smooth as can be. I have vaccummed sealed in a pinch and the cheese is edilbe, but not as complex. Waxing is a better choice, if you are not going to "bandage" the cheese.

Blessings

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 16 15:55:50 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:55:50 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] CaCl2-What's it for? References: <45835E24.1060205@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <018401c72154$92420c40$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Scott Asks: > Why do many cheese recipes ask for Calcium Chloride to be added? Does > rennet require it? Does dry milk powder have enough CaCl2 in it to > avoid needing to add more? My batches of milk seem to produce nice > looking curd without adding extra calcium. Will this ruin the cheese 1 > month later? > > > > Scott Homogenized milk will often form a soft curd. Sometimes pasteurization and overheating can (overheating often will) cause a soft curd. A soft curd that is difficult to handle and sometimes carries more moisture than is wanted to develop a good hard cheese. Milk bought at the store will always be pasteurized in most states and amost always homogenized, and will often need CaCl2 added for good results. Many of the recipes for the hobby cheese maker assumes store purchased milk will be used, so the CaCl2 is recommended so as to prevent an unecessary disappointment by a first timer. The Ca++ ions in the milk are necessary to form the lattice work of proteins that forms the curd. Somehow the Ca++ ions get tied up and not available when pasteurizing and homogenizing milk and CaCl2 will correct such a deficiency. Pasteurizing by heating milk to 145F and holding for 30 minutes, hasn't caused any problems for me. Cooling the milk rapidly is thought to help maintain quality in flavor and fragrance. I have not heard of CaCl2 being added to powdered milk, but if it is it should be on the list of ingredients. To use or not use CaCl2 should not affect the final product if you get the quality of curds your looking for. According to Kosikowski Federal Standards of Identity for Natural Ripened Cheese limits the adddition of CaCl2 to a maximum of 0.02% by weight. I can tell you that the butterfat is removed before drying the milk, because dried milk with fat will go rancid at a much earlier date compared to dried milk without fat. The cheeses that require fat to develop a unique charateristic texture and flavor such as cheddar will benefit from having some cream added. Calvin From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Dec 16 16:44:02 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 14:44:02 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 12 Message-ID: <200612162144.kBGLiJms009114@brew.hbd.org>

Calcium chloride is used in pasteurized milk to firm up the curd. Basically you are adding something that gets detroyed during pasteurization. I use raw milk, so never add it, but if you are using pasteurized milk I would suggest trying it with and without and see if the curd is different.

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 16 18:50:42 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:50:42 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese References: <200612160554.kBG5s4WX028440@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <019e01c7216d$00f952c0$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Linda, Sounds like a good method, What kind of oil are you using. Regards Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Conroy" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 12:53 AM Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese >

The best way to cure cheese is to "bandagle" it or wrap it in oiled cheese cloth. When I have done this and put it in my root cellar I get great results, it gets moldy on the outside, but inside it is just as smooth as can be. I have vaccummed sealed in a pinch and the cheese is edilbe, but not as complex. Waxing is a better choice, if you are not going to "bandage" the cheese.

>

Blessings

>

Linda

>

www.moonwiseherbs.com

> > Blessings, > Linda > > From dwturco at mhcable.com Sun Dec 17 13:50:38 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sun Dec 17 15:15:18 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride References: Message-ID: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> one gallon milk weighs 8.6# I get: 8.6# x .02% = 0.172# CaCl2 or: 16 oz / 1# x 0.172 # = 2.75 oz CaCl2 by weight Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Turco" To: Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sun Dec 17 15:19:33 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:19:33 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] [No Subject] Message-ID: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org>

Greetings. I use olive oil. It is thick and works well, I soak pieces of cheese cloth in the oil. The pieces are cut to fit on the top and bottom of the cheese, then a last pieces around the outside of the cheese. Works well.

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Linda,

Sounds like a good method,
What kind of oil are you using.

Regards
Calvin

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From arf at mc.net Sun Dec 17 18:45:59 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:45:59 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <4585D6B7.3040502@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > one gallon milk weighs 8.6# > I get: > > 8.6# x .02% = 0.172# CaCl2 > > or: 16 oz / 1# x 0.172 # = 2.75 oz CaCl2 by weight Not sure what you are basing your math on but calcium chloride for cheese making is sold in liquid form of an unknown concentration. If you use this preparation, you should follow the instructions that come with it. The bottle I have from Glengary says 1/4 tsp per 5 liters of milk. This should be diluted with 1/4 cup of water before mixing with the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Sun Dec 17 18:49:26 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:49:26 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] [No Subject] In-Reply-To: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org> References: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <4585D786.7080802@mc.net> Linda Conroy wrote: >

Greetings. I use olive oil. It is thick and works well, I soak > pieces of cheese cloth in the oil. The pieces are cut to fit on the > top and bottom of the cheese, then a last pieces around the outside > of the cheese. Works well.

Linda

href="http://www.moonwiseherbs.com">www.moonwiseherbs.com

>

Linda,

Sounds like a good method,
What kind of oil are > you using.

Regards
Calvin

I hate to be a grouch but this sort of text is very tedious for mail readers. Please dig into your email client and turn off the html feature. If you need help doing this, please let us know and we will assist. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sun Dec 17 22:08:12 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:08:12 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem References: Message-ID: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Dry cheese? If using non-fat powdered milk, cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. Calvin From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 14:05:58 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:05:58 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Dry Jack Cheese Message-ID: <45898996.5070902@yahoo.com> My mother loves dry jack cheese from Vella Cheese in Sonoma California. I just bought her 2 lbs. for Christmas. Does anyone know a recipe for this? As a special gift I was going to try to make some for her by using Ricki's recipe http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/ChsPgs/3Jack_Ricki/Index.html but it's not clear to me when to put the oil, cocoa and pepper on the cheese, and whether to wax it afterwards. Thanks. Scott From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Thu Dec 21 11:57:02 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:57:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese Message-ID: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> Hello, I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? Best, Joseph From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:43:22 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:43:22 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too soft. Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are pressing and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. If i wan full fat cheese, i use regular milk. In any case, try low weights the first few times you put your curds in the press, and after you've turned your cheese for the second or third time, and you want to make really hard cheese, give it a greater weight over night. Make sure your curd contains enough fat, so don't cut it too small or it will end up looking like compressed ricotta. Cooking temp is very important, so make sure you control it as much as you can. a couple of degrees too hot and it will end up too dry/crumbly too. albert On 12/17/06, Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Dry cheese? > > If using non-fat powdered milk, > cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. > > Calvin > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/16151b67/attachment-0002.html From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:49:32 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:49:32 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211949g68d85dbcn17757c320f4683e5@mail.gmail.com> 30% solution by weight. Leeners sells it at that concentration. It works for me. I have yet to get my hands on the "dry" stuff and make my own batches of solution. Actually is not by weight as in pounds, but by mass. So if you are making a kilogram of solution, 30% of the total mass should be made up of salts. On 12/17/06, Dave Turco wrote: > > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/28c86a40/attachment-0002.html From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:57:06 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:57:06 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211957o3920cb39w3944ba9340e9b2b5@mail.gmail.com> If you shoot google with a "hot to make cheese" this page will pop http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html The man is a bio and chem professor in some university in the northen us. He has been making goat cheeses fince forever. Go ther, do, he has some very nice walkthroughs and a LOT of info, even on how to handle your goats. Have fun and happy holydays to all. Albert. On 12/12/06, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make > cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep > the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which > works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the > recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/0f0db608/attachment-0002.html From arf at mc.net Thu Dec 21 23:07:09 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:07:09 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese In-Reply-To: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> References: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <458B59ED.2080709@mc.net> Joseph Steuer wrote: > Hello, > I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do > not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? If it is soft cheese, it will probably spoil before it ripens in the usual sense. All you can do is taste it and call it done when you like the taste. If you want a traditional blue cheese, you need a much drier curd and usually some light pressing. Check out my Stilton recipe to get an idea of what is involved. If you use goat cheese you might want to add extra cream to the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Thu Dec 21 23:31:18 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:31:18 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <458B5F96.3070700@mc.net> Albert Ortiz wrote: > Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always > fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too > soft. Then something else is wrong. Cooking temp/time, draining time, cheddaring, all of these things determine whether the cheese will be hard or soft. Pressing is just a finishing process. Before it even goes into the press, the curds should be a good squeaky chew. Most authors liken the texture to chicken breast and this is very much the way it must be before it is put into the press. The biggest problem with commercial milk, no matter what form, is cutting and initial cooking. The curd is extremely fragile and if not treated very carefully, the cheese will fail. It should only be stirred enough to keep it from scorching on the bottom for about the first ten minutes. By stirring, I mean only moving it around slowly. Stirring in the normal sense will destroy it. After about 10 mins it will firm up and be indistinguishable from fresh milk from a cow sort of cheese. >Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are > pressing > and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed > kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. Low fat cheese is an oxymoron. It simply can not be made at home. It will always be hard and unpalatable. >If i wan full fat cheese, i > use regular milk. Again, if it is homogenized, you will get bricks if you try to make cheddar but for different reasons. Most of the fat in homogenized milk will be lost in the process and result in a "low fat" cheese as above. If you start with low fat milk and add cream you can produce an excellent cheddar if you do everything else right. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elianeal at copper.net Fri Dec 22 18:27:41 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:27:41 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Fankhauser cheese page Message-ID: <001101c72620$c8acdf50$29998841@POOTER> Hi, Albert, Thanks for recommending the Fankhauser Cheese page link. What a resource. There is an incredible amount of information there! Merry Christmas to all! Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061222/97fe5639/attachment-0002.html From MTWillett at cox.net Fri Dec 22 23:14:24 2006 From: MTWillett at cox.net (Mike Willett) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:14:24 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd like to make 2 cheese presses using about 1.5 ft. each of 4 in. and 6. in. PVC. Can I just use the PVC on an upside-down plate with a follower and a weight arangement on top of the cheese? ANY ideas appreciated. Thanks! Mike -----Original Message----- From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org]On Behalf Of cheese-request at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:00 AM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to cheese at hbd.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cheese-request at hbd.org You can reach the person managing the list at cheese-owner at hbd.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." Today's Topics: 1. ripening soft goat cheese (Joseph Steuer) 2. Re: Cheese texture problem (Albert Ortiz) 3. Re: Using Calcium Chloride (Albert Ortiz) 4. Re: Raw Cheese (Albert Ortiz) 5. Re: ripening soft goat cheese (Jack Schmidling) 6. Re: Cheese texture problem (Jack Schmidling) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:57:02 -0500 From: Joseph Steuer Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hello, I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? Best, Joseph ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:43:22 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too soft. Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are pressing and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. If i wan full fat cheese, i use regular milk. In any case, try low weights the first few times you put your curds in the press, and after you've turned your cheese for the second or third time, and you want to make really hard cheese, give it a greater weight over night. Make sure your curd contains enough fat, so don't cut it too small or it will end up looking like compressed ricotta. Cooking temp is very important, so make sure you control it as much as you can. a couple of degrees too hot and it will end up too dry/crumbly too. albert On 12/17/06, Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Dry cheese? > > If using non-fat powdered milk, > cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. > > Calvin > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/16151b67/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:49:32 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211949g68d85dbcn17757c320f4683e5 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 30% solution by weight. Leeners sells it at that concentration. It works for me. I have yet to get my hands on the "dry" stuff and make my own batches of solution. Actually is not by weight as in pounds, but by mass. So if you are making a kilogram of solution, 30% of the total mass should be made up of salts. On 12/17/06, Dave Turco wrote: > > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/28c86a40/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:57:06 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw Cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211957o3920cb39w3944ba9340e9b2b5 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you shoot google with a "hot to make cheese" this page will pop http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html The man is a bio and chem professor in some university in the northen us. He has been making goat cheeses fince forever. Go ther, do, he has some very nice walkthroughs and a LOT of info, even on how to handle your goats. Have fun and happy holydays to all. Albert. On 12/12/06, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make > cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep > the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which > works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the > recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/0f0db608/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:07:09 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <458B59ED.2080709 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Joseph Steuer wrote: > Hello, > I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do > not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? If it is soft cheese, it will probably spoil before it ripens in the usual sense. All you can do is taste it and call it done when you like the taste. If you want a traditional blue cheese, you need a much drier curd and usually some light pressing. Check out my Stilton recipe to get an idea of what is involved. If you use goat cheese you might want to add extra cream to the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:31:18 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <458B5F96.3070700 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Albert Ortiz wrote: > Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always > fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too > soft. Then something else is wrong. Cooking temp/time, draining time, cheddaring, all of these things determine whether the cheese will be hard or soft. Pressing is just a finishing process. Before it even goes into the press, the curds should be a good squeaky chew. Most authors liken the texture to chicken breast and this is very much the way it must be before it is put into the press. The biggest problem with commercial milk, no matter what form, is cutting and initial cooking. The curd is extremely fragile and if not treated very carefully, the cheese will fail. It should only be stirred enough to keep it from scorching on the bottom for about the first ten minutes. By stirring, I mean only moving it around slowly. Stirring in the normal sense will destroy it. After about 10 mins it will firm up and be indistinguishable from fresh milk from a cow sort of cheese. >Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are > pressing > and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed > kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. Low fat cheese is an oxymoron. It simply can not be made at home. It will always be hard and unpalatable. >If i wan full fat cheese, i > use regular milk. Again, if it is homogenized, you will get bricks if you try to make cheddar but for different reasons. Most of the fat in homogenized milk will be lost in the process and result in a "low fat" cheese as above. If you start with low fat milk and add cream you can produce an excellent cheddar if you do everything else right. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 ************************************** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006 3:22 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006 3:22 PM From arf at mc.net Sat Dec 23 08:43:42 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:43:42 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <458D328E.20805@mc.net> Mike Willett wrote: > I'd like to make 2 cheese presses using about 1.5 ft. each of 4 in. and 6. > in. PVC. Can I just use the PVC on an upside-down plate with a follower and > a weight arangement on top of the cheese? Sure but the trick is to get 50 lbs of weight into the tube or on top of the follower in such a way that it is stable. As a point of order, your message contained the entire thread and a meaningless subject. Please edit out non-relevant text from messages. It is also a good idea to edit the subject to relate to the topic. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From zj06 at aub.edu.lb Tue Dec 26 08:44:51 2006 From: zj06 at aub.edu.lb (Ziad D. Jaber) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:44:51 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1167140691.45912753a6530@imail.aub.edu.lb> Dear all,Merry Christmas and happy new year. This is my first contribution and I want to thank you all for making this site so interesting and informative. I supervise a small dairy plant located in the Agricultural Research and Educational Center that belongs to the American University of Beirut- Lebanon. The goal of this dairy plant is to teach the food technology students of AUB, train the dairy producers and farmers of Lebanon and Middle East, and conduct research and experiments on new and improved local varieties of cheeses. I have been using vacuum packing for conserving hard cheeses during ripening for more than two years. The results are just great. I t is very important to mention that the cheese has to have at the correct degree of moisture and salt, the cheese surface has to be clean and the bag has to be sterile. Also very essential is the vacuum pressure and the secure sealing of the bag. Some of the cheeses that we apply this technology on are Kachkaval, Havarti, Parmesan. For cheeses that require oxygen during ripening and as a method of maintaining the moisture level we sometimes use ordinary plastic bags that we inflate with a balloon inflater and close with a band such cheeses are the Brie and Blue the results are also fine. Thanks again for the managing people and thanks a lot for all the contributers and mailers. Ziad Jaber ( Beirut- Lebanon) Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:52:38 -0600 > From: "Elizabeth Cameron" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: > Message-ID: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41 at POOTER> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is > encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of > vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum > sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is > good for the cheese. > > Happy Christmas! > Elizabeth > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061214/5281e5c3/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:35:43 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <4582342F.4030208 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you > > (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of > > waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, > > compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. > > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:30:09 -0600 > From: "ggilks" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <005d01c7203c$64d892b0$0200a8c0 at yourm5d4u9r2uv> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > We have Jersey cows and I make cheese from raw milk all the time. Also cream > cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc,etc. It is wonderful. Happy > Holidays Ina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elizabeth Cameron > To: cheese at hbd.org > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > > > Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is > encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of > vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum > sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is > good for the cheese. > > Happy Christmas! > Elizabeth > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061215/f869df0c/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:58:13 -0500 > From: "Calvin Gadbury" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce at youro0kwkw9jwc> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Jack Wrote: > > > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > > > js > > > > > > > Jack and All Others, > > Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in > Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. > > He mentions Parakote Wrappers;? > Cello-Cello-Parakote Lamination? > > Cryovac? > > Calvin > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 > ************************************** > > From mavityre at comcast.net Thu Dec 7 18:58:09 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:58:09 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> Hello folks. It's been a year or so. I'm back into making cheese again. Brian From ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz Fri Dec 8 00:39:53 2006 From: ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz (Ubonsri) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:39:53 +1300 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Hello Friends, That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > Hello folks. > It's been a year or so. > I'm back into making cheese again. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/6832eae5/attachment-0003.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 01:10:39 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:10:39 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207220716.019534d0@comcast.net> Wow. What's happened since I've been gone? It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share bleu cheese's with others. Tends to crossover to the others............ Brian At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: >Hello Friends, > >That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > >Ubonsri > >On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061207/ce2c9f9a/attachment-0003.html From ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz Fri Dec 8 03:25:33 2006 From: ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz (Ubonsri) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 21:25:33 +1300 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207220716.019534d0@comcast.net> References: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Well, I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > Wow. > What's happened since I've been gone? > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share > bleu cheese's with others. > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > Brian > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > Hello Friends, > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > Ubonsri > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/1500cf3c/attachment-0003.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 11:04:14 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:04:14 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208080124.019c9c28@comcast.net> I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. I give up on the bleu cheeses. These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. Brian At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/30ef3214/attachment-0003.html From mstaver at kendall.edu Fri Dec 8 11:39:38 2006 From: mstaver at kendall.edu (Michael J. Staver) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:39:38 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back Message-ID: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendall.edu> If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist after 9 months? Michael ________________________________ From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM To: The Cheese Makers' Digest Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. I give up on the bleu cheeses. These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. Brian At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: Well, I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > Wow. > What's happened since I've been gone? > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share > bleu cheese's with others. > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > Brian > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > Hello Friends, > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > Ubonsri > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/bf4bd8f7/attachment-0003.html From patrickmann at hotmail.com Fri Dec 8 12:13:38 2006 From: patrickmann at hotmail.com (Patrick Mann) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:13:38 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) Message-ID: My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=wl_wlmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/7d874347/attachment-0003.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 13:02:39 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:02:39 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendal l.edu> References: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendall.edu> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208095820.01953ca8@comcast.net> I don't know. I haven't been doing it long enough. I think it wasn't humid enough. Brian At 08:39 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C71AE7.74714326" > >If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist >after 9 months? Michael > > >---------- >From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On >Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity >Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM >To: The Cheese Makers' Digest >Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back > >I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I >just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 >months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. >I give up on the bleu cheeses. >These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. > >Brian > > > >At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: > >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ea1f96be/attachment-0003.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 13:03:57 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:03:57 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208100256.019a42e8@comcast.net> I have the same problem. I have heard about some stuff you can brush on it before you wax it. Also, it could be that it has too much moisture still in it. Brian At 09:13 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. >Any tips on how to prevent this? >Thanks, > Patrick > > >---------- >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day >trial! >Learn >more! >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/d4484aa0/attachment-0003.html From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Fri Dec 8 13:02:56 2006 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (kathy) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:02:56 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: Message-ID: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> Patrick, Try a little potassium sorbate solution. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/e5e6216d/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 16:14:46 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:14:46 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> kathy wrote: > Patrick, > > Try a little potassium sorbate solution. That's interesting and I wonder what the mechanism involved is. On the other hand, one of the problems I see is the paranoia about burning down the house by heating wax to a temperature that can go a long way in preventing mold. Melting in a double boiler and/or brushing on with a brush is simply coating it with wax. If the wax is heated to 200F or more and the cheese submerged in this for about ten seconds, the surface is effectively sterilized or at least "sanitized" as they say in brewing. This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Fri Dec 8 16:38:30 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:38:30 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> Message-ID: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? Are you referring to the burn damage or something that should be watched out for in terms of cheesemaking and the quality of the cheese? Thanks, Doug On Dec 8, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 19:01:43 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:01:43 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> Message-ID: <4579FCE7.5070000@mc.net> Doug Snyder wrote: > When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? I am referring to possibility of the cheese slipping out of your hand and dropping into the hot wax, splashing this all over the place including your face. If you dip half of it into the wax, it is pretty easy to hang on to but the next dip (after cooling) has you holding onto the waxed side which can be slippery. I find that latex gloves give a pretty good grip on it. The safest method is to put the cheese into some sort of basket and dip the whole thing. I have used a steamer basket which works but I prefer the double dipping and just concentrate on hanging on and the disaster if I let it slip. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Fri Dec 8 20:15:02 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:15:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: Message-ID: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Some possibilities to ruminate on: 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by mechanical damage. 2. May have pin holes in wax coating when applied to cheese. Solutions: use colored wax to see unwaxed areas better and wax two times for a better seal 3. If reusing wax, must be hot enough to kill all mold cantaminations in the wax 4. Wax temperature too low to kill mold contaminations on cheese surface Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ad7c415e/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 23:53:29 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:53:29 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <457A4149.2050608@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > Some possibilities to ruminate on: > > > 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, > therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by > mechanical damage. According to Kozikowski, paraffin allows needed gas transfer and cheese wax does not. He recommends dipping in very hot paraffin and ripening for the first 30 days or so and then dipping in a more permanent (and pretty) cheese wax. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From dwturco at mhcable.com Sat Dec 9 11:48:04 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:48:04 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hoegger Goat Supply sells a cream wax that claims to prevent mold. Here's an exerpt from the online store. "Available for the first time to the home cheesemaker. Cream wax acts as a mold inhibitor on all hard cheeses. Simply hand apply a thin coating on the outside surface of your finished hard cheeses and allow to air dry thoroughly. Then cover with regular cheese wax. You'll never have to worry about mold spoiling your valuable hard cheese again." dt -----Original Message----- From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org]On Behalf Of cheese-request at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:35 PM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to cheese at hbd.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cheese-request at hbd.org You can reach the person managing the list at cheese-owner at hbd.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." Today's Topics: 1. mold (the bad kind) (Patrick Mann) 2. Re: I'm back (Brian N. Mavity) 3. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Brian N. Mavity) 4. Re: mold (the bad kind) (kathy) 5. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Jack Schmidling) 6. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Doug Snyder) 7. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Jack Schmidling) 8. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Calvin Gadbury) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:13:38 -0800 From: Patrick Mann Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=wl_wlmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/7d874347/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:02:39 -0800 From: "Brian N. Mavity" Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208095820.01953ca8 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't know. I haven't been doing it long enough. I think it wasn't humid enough. Brian At 08:39 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C71AE7.74714326" > >If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist >after 9 months? Michael > > >---------- >From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On >Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity >Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM >To: The Cheese Makers' Digest >Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back > >I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I >just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 >months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. >I give up on the bleu cheeses. >These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. > >Brian > > > >At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: > >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ea1f96be/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:03:57 -0800 From: "Brian N. Mavity" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208100256.019a42e8 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have the same problem. I have heard about some stuff you can brush on it before you wax it. Also, it could be that it has too much moisture still in it. Brian At 09:13 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. >Any tips on how to prevent this? >Thanks, > Patrick > > >---------- >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day >trial! >Learn >more! >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/d4484aa0/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:02:56 -0600 From: "kathy" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0 at aoldsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Patrick, Try a little potassium sorbate solution. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/e5e6216d/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:14:46 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <4579D5C6.6070905 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed kathy wrote: > Patrick, > > Try a little potassium sorbate solution. That's interesting and I wonder what the mechanism involved is. On the other hand, one of the problems I see is the paranoia about burning down the house by heating wax to a temperature that can go a long way in preventing mold. Melting in a double boiler and/or brushing on with a brush is simply coating it with wax. If the wax is heated to 200F or more and the cheese submerged in this for about ten seconds, the surface is effectively sterilized or at least "sanitized" as they say in brewing. This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:38:30 -0800 From: "Doug Snyder" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476 at swlaw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? Are you referring to the burn damage or something that should be watched out for in terms of cheesemaking and the quality of the cheese? Thanks, Doug On Dec 8, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:01:43 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <4579FCE7.5070000 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Doug Snyder wrote: > When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? I am referring to possibility of the cheese slipping out of your hand and dropping into the hot wax, splashing this all over the place including your face. If you dip half of it into the wax, it is pretty easy to hang on to but the next dip (after cooling) has you holding onto the waxed side which can be slippery. I find that latex gloves give a pretty good grip on it. The safest method is to put the cheese into some sort of basket and dip the whole thing. I have used a steamer basket which works but I prefer the double dipping and just concentrate on hanging on and the disaster if I let it slip. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:15:02 -0500 From: "Calvin Gadbury" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce at youro0kwkw9jwc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some possibilities to ruminate on: 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by mechanical damage. 2. May have pin holes in wax coating when applied to cheese. Solutions: use colored wax to see unwaxed areas better and wax two times for a better seal 3. If reusing wax, must be hot enough to kill all mold cantaminations in the wax 4. Wax temperature too low to kill mold contaminations on cheese surface Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ad7c415e/attachment.htm l ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061209/763ee930/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Sat Dec 9 11:57:44 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 10:57:44 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457AEB08.40002@mc.net> Dave Turco wrote: > Hoegger Goat Supply sells a cream wax that claims to prevent mold. Here's > an exerpt from the online store. Save your money. It does not work. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 9 15:02:17 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:02:17 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> <457A4149.2050608@mc.net> Message-ID: <008901c71bcc$ee8ec200$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Agreed: For those who would like to look it up for themselves: It is in Cheese and Fermented Mild Foods by Frank V. Kozikowski, second edition, third printing on pages 647-649. For those who don't have access to the above and are interested I have quoted the main points below: "Paraffin wax is customarily appled to young cheese encased in cloth bandages at a temperature of 118 degrees C for 5 seconds. Cheese paraffin wax loses some water, but at a much lower rate than unwaxed cheese. Carbon dioxide, Hydrogen sulfide and other gases can diffuse through the wax." "Other forms of wax are available. One (Kozikwoski names these flexible waxes, some call cheese waxes, they have divers working temperatures) is applied over the first paraffin wax layer, usually for long hold, ripened cheeses. Compared to paraffin wax, this second form of wax displays more flexibility and a lower water vapor transmission. However, it does not provide as rapid a CO2 passage. This is an important factor which limits its use in the early period of ripening when Carbon dioxide is produced most extensively. The second wax layer lor long hold cheese is often applied after 30 days or longer, using the same principles and precautions for paraffin wax." "A third form is a low temperature, flexible type. It is used for 5 to 10 gift wheels... Cheese is dipped into this wax at about 80 degrees C for 6 seconds, which does not give it the same protection against mold as the other two forms of wax... Limiting the cheese dipping to 6 seconds prevents fat oiling-off and discoloration... Bubbles of air and mold growth under cheese wax surfaces are prevented by waxing only cheese which has dry surfaces, and by using the maximum recommended heating temperatures for wax." He also has a table to go with the above that repeats and elaborates on the above I won't repeat here, but the main points for protection against mold under the wax are: Wax only cheese with dry surface Heat wax to 118C (245F) Immerse in wax for 5 to 6 seconds Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) > Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Some possibilities to ruminate on: > > > > > > 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, > > therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by > > mechanical damage. > > According to Kozikowski, paraffin allows needed gas transfer and cheese > wax does not. > > He recommends dipping in very hot paraffin and ripening for the first 30 > days or so and then dipping in a more permanent (and pretty) cheese wax. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From dwturco at mhcable.com Sat Dec 9 18:59:28 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 18:59:28 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My problem is the texture of all my cheeses. They are more crumbly then creamy. I've tried everything including the powdered milk with heavy cream. Don't know what to do next except try to get my hands on fresh milk. Any suggestions? From dairyl at drenik.net Sun Dec 10 12:05:35 2006 From: dairyl at drenik.net (Milos Bogdanovic) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 17:05:35 -0000 Subject: [Cheese] (no subject) Message-ID: <000a01c71c7d$6b8fe2b0$eb62c8d4@PC> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061210/47a71d16/attachment-0003.html From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 13:27:44 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:27:44 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream Message-ID: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? I realize this may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? Thanks for the advice. Scott From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Mon Dec 11 21:28:46 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:28:46 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem References: Message-ID: <013901c71d95$40fbe0d0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Dave If crumbly and dry. Can be: 1. Not enough rennet. 2. Cutting curd to small. 3. Rough stirring. 4. If curd scalded, scalding temp. to high.. 5. When pressed, initial pressure too high. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Turco" To: Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem > My problem is the texture of all my cheeses. They are more crumbly then > creamy. I've tried everything including the powdered milk with heavy cream. > Don't know what to do next except try to get my hands on fresh milk. Any > suggestions? > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From arf at mc.net Mon Dec 11 23:38:34 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:38:34 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream In-Reply-To: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> References: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <457E324A.8040905@mc.net> bobobrazil10 wrote: > I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that > had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked > like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to > try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? Not a chance but taste it... you might like it but you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. > I realize this > may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? Right and it's not dumb at all. Just a sign of a thinking brain that just needs a little more data to work it out and that's what the list provides. If it was pasteurized cream it is probably spoiled as opposed to sour. Sour cream is ripened with specific bacteria that makes it taste good. If it was pasteurized and ripened, it is more likely than not ripened with something that will not make it taste or even smell good. If you like the smell, taste it... who knows but it will not be Brie. Read my recipe for Brie/Camembert to get an idea of what is involved in making a cheese. Keep thinking... js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elianeal at copper.net Tue Dec 12 12:53:14 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:53:14 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Message-ID: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/76f58dc9/attachment-0003.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Tue Dec 12 12:57:37 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream References: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <015301c71e17$03ad5240$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Scott, Micogorganisms are the fastest mutating forms of life on the planet, so there is always some type of opportunity popping up for the venturer to take advantage of. Let us know what happens. Remember though, for each new bacteria or mold strain that might make a new cheese, there is one that might make the venturer sick. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobobrazil10" To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 1:27 PM Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream > I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that > had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked > like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to > try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? I realize this > may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? > Thanks for the advice. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Tue Dec 12 12:57:55 2006 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (kathy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:57:55 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <014301c71e17$0d8130c0$6601a8c0@SBC> Elizabeth, I am jealous...I'd love to have access to fresh goat milk. My dad was in the dairy industry most of his life...his company manufactured coagulants, enzymes and the like. I'll pose your question to him, but I think he's out of town, so it may take a few days. I'd actually like to get him on this list, but he's not the most computer literate person. Regards, Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/df089514/attachment-0003.html From kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us Tue Dec 12 13:03:25 2006 From: kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us (Nancy Krogh) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:03:25 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <001301c71e17$d1cc3290$0535630a@WVLCCIRC> hello, we make raw milk cheese form cows milk. ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/40db0fc0/attachment-0003.html From kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us Tue Dec 12 13:06:08 2006 From: kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us (Nancy Krogh) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <002901c71e18$32d9c750$0535630a@WVLCCIRC> sorry i cut myself off ! YES YES YOU CAN MAKE HARD CHEESE! Although i am not sure about goats . They all tell you to psteurize , i think there is a reason Louis Pasteure was run out of France !!!!! they don't hardly pasteurize anyhting!!!! ha ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/51a6cb70/attachment-0003.html From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Tue Dec 12 13:12:18 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: Hi there, I make cheese from raw goat's milk. I have made the softer cheeses also, but am about to embark on hard cheeses. I'm not at home now, so I don't have my French goat cheese book, but pasteurization has only been around, well, since Pasteur, I suppose. People have been making cheese, hard and soft, without pasteurization forever. In France, they still do in many places. Actually, you can buy raw milk hard cheeses these days (as long as they are aged, I think, 60 days) in the U.S. You do not have to pasteurize, as long as you are comfortable with the risks (you can look those up). I happen to be comfortable with the risks. I likely wouldn't serve the cheese to a pregnant woman, and in U.S. you shouldn't sell those cheeses without proper licenses, but for your consumption, you should be fine. Oh, and raw milk cheese tastes better too (but you know that). Best, Joseph On Dec 12, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody > make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would > prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk > raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this > for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/6297eb69/attachment-0003.html From dwturco at mhcable.com Tue Dec 12 18:16:03 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dwturco) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:16:03 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Crumbly & Dry Message-ID: <20061213005129.3CE05E72A0@smtp2.mhcable.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/4fe01d24/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Tue Dec 12 22:57:30 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:57:30 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <457F7A2A.6020008@mc.net> Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody > make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer > to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for > chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard > cheeses. Fresh milk has the potential to produce better cheese because of the natural flora and fauna. Fresh milk can contain pathogenic organisms along with the good stuff so if there is any doubt, it should be Pasteurized, especially for fresh cheese. Aging hard cheese reduces the likelihood that the bad stuff will survive so it is far safer than fresh cheese. If you have survived your fresh cheese efforts and drink the milk that way, it would indicate that the milk is probably safe. Use fresh milk exactly like you would use pasteurized milk except that you can dispense with the calcium chloride but you still must use the usual starters to assure the timely acidification. The natural stuff will still be there to add character as it ages. You might also find that your goat milk is lacking in butterfat for a nice smooth cheese so try upping the level by adding extra cream if you can separate it. Good luck, js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Tue Dec 12 23:32:15 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:32:15 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] raw milk Message-ID: <200612130433.kBD4WVk8015412@brew.hbd.org>

Hi,
I am new to the conversation, and have a question.  Does anybody make
cheese from raw fresh milk?  I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep
the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which
works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses.  Most of
the recipes say to pasteurize.

Thanks.
Elizabeth

Greetings. Below are comments that are on my website www.moonwiseherbs.com regarding raw milk cheese making. I have a cheese page with a recipe for a farmers cheese that is great made with goat milk. This cheese is a fresh hard cheese, if you will. It is a good place to start-you can go to the page for the recipe: http://moonwiseherbs.com/cheesepage.htm Hope that is helpful. Linda

 Historically all cheese was made with farm fresh raw milk. There is a growing desire and movement that is incorporating farm fresh raw milk back into the American diet. Many people are coming to understand that pasteurization destroys nutrients and creates a product that is not easily digested. If you would like to read more about the health benefits of raw milk and/or find a source for raw milk in your area see www.realmilk.com. 

Also remember that not all raw milk is the same. If you are milking your own animals-you know what the conditions of your milk are. If you are purchasing milk become an informed consumer.  Read about best farm practices and interview the farmer you are purchasing milk from. Visit and tour the farm, make sure the farm is clean and that the animals are being let out to pasture. Be sure the farmer drinks the milk and that it is strained shortly after milking. 

As I started making cheese, I realized that it is impossible to make decent cheese from the milk you purchase in the store. If you are nervous about raw milk and want to make cheese the best luck you will have is with low heat pasteurized milk. Most milk is high heat or ultra-pasteurized, although some organic producers do low heat pasteurize. Just call the company and they should be happy to tell you what their practices are.

Pasteurization: particularly high heat pasteurization destroys proteins and leaves very little to coagulate or curdle-this is why enzymes and calcium chloride are added in the cheese making process when pasteurized milk is used. When I contemplate this I imagine that food which has been destroyed to this extent cannot be healthful. Most cheese makers are adding ingredients to help pasteurize milk coagulate, when raw milk has all it needs to form a nice curd and a flavorful product as well as eliminate unwanted bacteria.  

I would also occasionally purchase "raw milk" cheese. One day I was at a local farmers market talking to a vendor who was selling "raw milk" cheese and she informed me that they actually do low heat pasteurize the milk and that legally they can label their product "raw milk" cheese. Not all producers do this, many small artisan producers do make truly raw milk cheese, but many of the larger scale producers (even organic) are using this practice. If the cheese is not pasteurized it is required that it be aged for at least 60 days (theoretically the acid level would be high enough at this point to eliminate potentially harmful bacteria). Fresh cheese (not aged) that is made with raw milk cannot be purchased.

In order to know what is in the cheese that I eat I have decided to make most of my own cheese and only on occasion selectively purchase cheese from small artisans cheese makers. So that said I make all of my cheese fresh as well as aged from farm fresh raw milk.


 

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Tue Dec 12 23:37:54 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:37:54 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Brie? Message-ID: <200612130438.kBD4cE7a015615@brew.hbd.org>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:27:44 -0500
From: bobobrazil10
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream
To: cheese at hbd.org
Message-ID: <457DA320.8010601 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I'm a neophyte cheese maker.  Today I found some old heavy cream that
had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months.  It looked

like sour cream, but smelled like Brie.  Is there a good reason not to
try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie?  I realize this
may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? 
Thanks for the advice.

Scott

If this smells and tastes good, you can make cheese from it. While it would not be Brie, it could turn out to be something really good. And it is true pasteurized milk, cream, milk products that are not cultured rot. But if this is cultured it might very well be your very own creation that turns out to be delicious. Don't be afraid to experiment!

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From Wailingcoyote at aol.com Wed Dec 13 08:12:10 2006 From: Wailingcoyote at aol.com (Wailingcoyote@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:12:10 EST Subject: [Cheese] Brie? Message-ID: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> I WANT THESE "CHESE" EM'S TO STOP --- STOP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/09821700/attachment-0003.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Wed Dec 13 08:54:48 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:54:48 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <004201c71ebe$dfe82120$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Elizabeth, Yes, we make cheese from raw milk. Pateurization has its place and has saved alot of illness. But remember pasteurization is not sterilization and does not kill all the mircoorganisms, most people swear they are the same thing and the dairy industry does nothing to discourage this belief. Pasteurization lowers the bacteria numbers to number level that is below the threshold number that will cause illness in most of the population. So if a person practices good hygiene "to the maximum" when harvesting his cheese milk he can be nearly as pathogenic free as what is gotten at the store. One micro I am some what leary of is the Listeria group. An inffection of this group has a reputation of causing death in infants yet to be born. Listeria is a cold loving bacterium and multiplies readily at 40 F. This is a special case where it is best if raw milk is turned in to cheese right away, it safest. We make our cheeses as soon as we bring the milk in from the barn possible. About the time we get it ready for innoculation the milk temperature is 86 F. I put it in a double boiler with 86 F water and I don't have to turn on the stove till after renneting and cutting. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/86161aa1/attachment-0003.html From Wailingcoyote at aol.com Wed Dec 13 09:05:15 2006 From: Wailingcoyote at aol.com (Wailingcoyote@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:05:15 EST Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Message-ID: GO TO H--L -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/06ac4f51/attachment-0003.html From hollen at woodsprite.com Wed Dec 13 10:43:28 2006 From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:43:28 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: >GO TO H--L >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not be allowed on the internet. From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Wed Dec 13 11:02:28 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:02:28 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> Message-ID: <8611819A-BC38-44AA-840B-AB8CF565B286@earthlink.net> I second that emotion. On Dec 13, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Dion Hollenbeck wrote: > At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: >> GO TO H--L >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the > information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the > link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not > be allowed on the internet. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Wed Dec 13 12:54:46 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:54:46 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Brie? In-Reply-To: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> References: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> Message-ID: I want a pony. Doug On Dec 13, 2006, at 5:12 AM, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: I WANT THESE "CHESE" EM'S TO STOP --- STOP _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/c5224ba4/attachment-0003.html From ssarge2 at owc.net Wed Dec 13 18:11:28 2006 From: ssarge2 at owc.net (SS2) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:11:28 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) Message-ID: <001701c71f0c$06236500$6400a8c0@cssuvjea4qmy3w> IN that guy's defense. I unsubscribed but continued to get the emails. They've actually been interesting lately and informative so I'm glad my "unsubscribing didn't work. Everyone here seems so nice and accomodating. Extend that to this guy. Consider it your holiday gift to him.(or her?) Wishing everyone here a wonderful, safe holiday and a prosperous, healthy and "cheesey" New Year. Susie On 12/13/2006 10:02:28 AM, Joseph Steuer (joseph.steuer at earthlink.net) wrote: > I second that emotion. > On Dec 13, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Dion Hollenbeck wrote: > > > At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: > >> GO TO H--L > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cheese mailing list > >> Cheese at hbd.org > >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the > > information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the > > link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not > > be allowed on the internet. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/47593729/attachment-0003.html From reich_stuff at yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 19:13:08 2006 From: reich_stuff at yahoo.com (Steven Reich) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:13:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Please remove me from the list Message-ID: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> Please remove me from the list From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Wed Dec 13 19:26:26 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:26:26 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Please remove me from the list In-Reply-To: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here's the link: http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese Go there and enter your info and if you still get emails after a couple days let us know. Doug On Dec 13, 2006, at 4:13 PM, Steven Reich wrote: Please remove me from the list _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From elianeal at copper.net Thu Dec 14 20:52:38 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:52:38 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing Message-ID: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. Happy Christmas! Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061214/5281e5c3/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 15 00:35:43 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:35:43 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing In-Reply-To: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Message-ID: <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> Elizabeth Cameron wrote: Another thing I was wondering about is whether you > (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of > waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, > compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then what is the point... might as well eat it. It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From ggilks at hughes.net Fri Dec 15 06:30:09 2006 From: ggilks at hughes.net (ggilks) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:30:09 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Message-ID: <005d01c7203c$64d892b0$0200a8c0@yourm5d4u9r2uv> We have Jersey cows and I make cheese from raw milk all the time. Also cream cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc,etc. It is wonderful. Happy Holidays Ina ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. Happy Christmas! Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061215/f869df0c/attachment-0003.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Fri Dec 15 09:58:13 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:58:13 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> Message-ID: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Jack Wrote: > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > js > > Jack and All Others, Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. He mentions Parakote Wrappers;? Cello-Cello-Parakote Lamination? Cryovac? Calvin From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 15 12:32:08 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:32:08 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing In-Reply-To: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <4582DC18.2020604@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > Jack and All Others, > > Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in > Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. Not I. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 21:47:00 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:47:00 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] CaCl2-What's it for? Message-ID: <45835E24.1060205@yahoo.com> Why do many cheese recipes ask for Calcium Chloride to be added? Does rennet require it? Does dry milk powder have enough CaCl2 in it to avoid needing to add more? My batches of milk seem to produce nice looking curd without adding extra calcium. Will this ruin the cheese 1 month later? Scott From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Dec 16 00:53:49 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese Message-ID: <200612160554.kBG5s4WX028440@brew.hbd.org>

The best way to cure cheese is to "bandagle" it or wrap it in oiled cheese cloth. When I have done this and put it in my root cellar I get great results, it gets moldy on the outside, but inside it is just as smooth as can be. I have vaccummed sealed in a pinch and the cheese is edilbe, but not as complex. Waxing is a better choice, if you are not going to "bandage" the cheese.

Blessings

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 16 15:55:50 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:55:50 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] CaCl2-What's it for? References: <45835E24.1060205@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <018401c72154$92420c40$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Scott Asks: > Why do many cheese recipes ask for Calcium Chloride to be added? Does > rennet require it? Does dry milk powder have enough CaCl2 in it to > avoid needing to add more? My batches of milk seem to produce nice > looking curd without adding extra calcium. Will this ruin the cheese 1 > month later? > > > > Scott Homogenized milk will often form a soft curd. Sometimes pasteurization and overheating can (overheating often will) cause a soft curd. A soft curd that is difficult to handle and sometimes carries more moisture than is wanted to develop a good hard cheese. Milk bought at the store will always be pasteurized in most states and amost always homogenized, and will often need CaCl2 added for good results. Many of the recipes for the hobby cheese maker assumes store purchased milk will be used, so the CaCl2 is recommended so as to prevent an unecessary disappointment by a first timer. The Ca++ ions in the milk are necessary to form the lattice work of proteins that forms the curd. Somehow the Ca++ ions get tied up and not available when pasteurizing and homogenizing milk and CaCl2 will correct such a deficiency. Pasteurizing by heating milk to 145F and holding for 30 minutes, hasn't caused any problems for me. Cooling the milk rapidly is thought to help maintain quality in flavor and fragrance. I have not heard of CaCl2 being added to powdered milk, but if it is it should be on the list of ingredients. To use or not use CaCl2 should not affect the final product if you get the quality of curds your looking for. According to Kosikowski Federal Standards of Identity for Natural Ripened Cheese limits the adddition of CaCl2 to a maximum of 0.02% by weight. I can tell you that the butterfat is removed before drying the milk, because dried milk with fat will go rancid at a much earlier date compared to dried milk without fat. The cheeses that require fat to develop a unique charateristic texture and flavor such as cheddar will benefit from having some cream added. Calvin From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Dec 16 16:44:02 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 14:44:02 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 12 Message-ID: <200612162144.kBGLiJms009114@brew.hbd.org>

Calcium chloride is used in pasteurized milk to firm up the curd. Basically you are adding something that gets detroyed during pasteurization. I use raw milk, so never add it, but if you are using pasteurized milk I would suggest trying it with and without and see if the curd is different.

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 16 18:50:42 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:50:42 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese References: <200612160554.kBG5s4WX028440@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <019e01c7216d$00f952c0$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Linda, Sounds like a good method, What kind of oil are you using. Regards Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Conroy" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 12:53 AM Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese >

The best way to cure cheese is to "bandagle" it or wrap it in oiled cheese cloth. When I have done this and put it in my root cellar I get great results, it gets moldy on the outside, but inside it is just as smooth as can be. I have vaccummed sealed in a pinch and the cheese is edilbe, but not as complex. Waxing is a better choice, if you are not going to "bandage" the cheese.

>

Blessings

>

Linda

>

www.moonwiseherbs.com

> > Blessings, > Linda > > From dwturco at mhcable.com Sun Dec 17 13:50:38 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sun Dec 17 15:15:18 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride References: Message-ID: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> one gallon milk weighs 8.6# I get: 8.6# x .02% = 0.172# CaCl2 or: 16 oz / 1# x 0.172 # = 2.75 oz CaCl2 by weight Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Turco" To: Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sun Dec 17 15:19:33 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:19:33 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] [No Subject] Message-ID: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org>

Greetings. I use olive oil. It is thick and works well, I soak pieces of cheese cloth in the oil. The pieces are cut to fit on the top and bottom of the cheese, then a last pieces around the outside of the cheese. Works well.

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Linda,

Sounds like a good method,
What kind of oil are you using.

Regards
Calvin

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From arf at mc.net Sun Dec 17 18:45:59 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:45:59 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <4585D6B7.3040502@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > one gallon milk weighs 8.6# > I get: > > 8.6# x .02% = 0.172# CaCl2 > > or: 16 oz / 1# x 0.172 # = 2.75 oz CaCl2 by weight Not sure what you are basing your math on but calcium chloride for cheese making is sold in liquid form of an unknown concentration. If you use this preparation, you should follow the instructions that come with it. The bottle I have from Glengary says 1/4 tsp per 5 liters of milk. This should be diluted with 1/4 cup of water before mixing with the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Sun Dec 17 18:49:26 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:49:26 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] [No Subject] In-Reply-To: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org> References: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <4585D786.7080802@mc.net> Linda Conroy wrote: >

Greetings. I use olive oil. It is thick and works well, I soak > pieces of cheese cloth in the oil. The pieces are cut to fit on the > top and bottom of the cheese, then a last pieces around the outside > of the cheese. Works well.

Linda

href="http://www.moonwiseherbs.com">www.moonwiseherbs.com

>

Linda,

Sounds like a good method,
What kind of oil are > you using.

Regards
Calvin

I hate to be a grouch but this sort of text is very tedious for mail readers. Please dig into your email client and turn off the html feature. If you need help doing this, please let us know and we will assist. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sun Dec 17 22:08:12 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:08:12 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem References: Message-ID: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Dry cheese? If using non-fat powdered milk, cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. Calvin From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 14:05:58 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:05:58 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Dry Jack Cheese Message-ID: <45898996.5070902@yahoo.com> My mother loves dry jack cheese from Vella Cheese in Sonoma California. I just bought her 2 lbs. for Christmas. Does anyone know a recipe for this? As a special gift I was going to try to make some for her by using Ricki's recipe http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/ChsPgs/3Jack_Ricki/Index.html but it's not clear to me when to put the oil, cocoa and pepper on the cheese, and whether to wax it afterwards. Thanks. Scott From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Thu Dec 21 11:57:02 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:57:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese Message-ID: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> Hello, I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? Best, Joseph From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:43:22 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:43:22 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too soft. Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are pressing and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. If i wan full fat cheese, i use regular milk. In any case, try low weights the first few times you put your curds in the press, and after you've turned your cheese for the second or third time, and you want to make really hard cheese, give it a greater weight over night. Make sure your curd contains enough fat, so don't cut it too small or it will end up looking like compressed ricotta. Cooking temp is very important, so make sure you control it as much as you can. a couple of degrees too hot and it will end up too dry/crumbly too. albert On 12/17/06, Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Dry cheese? > > If using non-fat powdered milk, > cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. > > Calvin > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/16151b67/attachment-0003.html From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:49:32 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:49:32 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211949g68d85dbcn17757c320f4683e5@mail.gmail.com> 30% solution by weight. Leeners sells it at that concentration. It works for me. I have yet to get my hands on the "dry" stuff and make my own batches of solution. Actually is not by weight as in pounds, but by mass. So if you are making a kilogram of solution, 30% of the total mass should be made up of salts. On 12/17/06, Dave Turco wrote: > > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/28c86a40/attachment-0003.html From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:57:06 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:57:06 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211957o3920cb39w3944ba9340e9b2b5@mail.gmail.com> If you shoot google with a "hot to make cheese" this page will pop http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html The man is a bio and chem professor in some university in the northen us. He has been making goat cheeses fince forever. Go ther, do, he has some very nice walkthroughs and a LOT of info, even on how to handle your goats. Have fun and happy holydays to all. Albert. On 12/12/06, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make > cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep > the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which > works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the > recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/0f0db608/attachment-0003.html From arf at mc.net Thu Dec 21 23:07:09 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:07:09 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese In-Reply-To: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> References: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <458B59ED.2080709@mc.net> Joseph Steuer wrote: > Hello, > I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do > not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? If it is soft cheese, it will probably spoil before it ripens in the usual sense. All you can do is taste it and call it done when you like the taste. If you want a traditional blue cheese, you need a much drier curd and usually some light pressing. Check out my Stilton recipe to get an idea of what is involved. If you use goat cheese you might want to add extra cream to the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Thu Dec 21 23:31:18 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:31:18 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <458B5F96.3070700@mc.net> Albert Ortiz wrote: > Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always > fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too > soft. Then something else is wrong. Cooking temp/time, draining time, cheddaring, all of these things determine whether the cheese will be hard or soft. Pressing is just a finishing process. Before it even goes into the press, the curds should be a good squeaky chew. Most authors liken the texture to chicken breast and this is very much the way it must be before it is put into the press. The biggest problem with commercial milk, no matter what form, is cutting and initial cooking. The curd is extremely fragile and if not treated very carefully, the cheese will fail. It should only be stirred enough to keep it from scorching on the bottom for about the first ten minutes. By stirring, I mean only moving it around slowly. Stirring in the normal sense will destroy it. After about 10 mins it will firm up and be indistinguishable from fresh milk from a cow sort of cheese. >Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are > pressing > and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed > kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. Low fat cheese is an oxymoron. It simply can not be made at home. It will always be hard and unpalatable. >If i wan full fat cheese, i > use regular milk. Again, if it is homogenized, you will get bricks if you try to make cheddar but for different reasons. Most of the fat in homogenized milk will be lost in the process and result in a "low fat" cheese as above. If you start with low fat milk and add cream you can produce an excellent cheddar if you do everything else right. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elianeal at copper.net Fri Dec 22 18:27:41 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:27:41 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Fankhauser cheese page Message-ID: <001101c72620$c8acdf50$29998841@POOTER> Hi, Albert, Thanks for recommending the Fankhauser Cheese page link. What a resource. There is an incredible amount of information there! Merry Christmas to all! Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061222/97fe5639/attachment-0003.html From MTWillett at cox.net Fri Dec 22 23:14:24 2006 From: MTWillett at cox.net (Mike Willett) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:14:24 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd like to make 2 cheese presses using about 1.5 ft. each of 4 in. and 6. in. PVC. Can I just use the PVC on an upside-down plate with a follower and a weight arangement on top of the cheese? ANY ideas appreciated. Thanks! Mike -----Original Message----- From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org]On Behalf Of cheese-request at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:00 AM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to cheese at hbd.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cheese-request at hbd.org You can reach the person managing the list at cheese-owner at hbd.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." Today's Topics: 1. ripening soft goat cheese (Joseph Steuer) 2. Re: Cheese texture problem (Albert Ortiz) 3. Re: Using Calcium Chloride (Albert Ortiz) 4. Re: Raw Cheese (Albert Ortiz) 5. Re: ripening soft goat cheese (Jack Schmidling) 6. Re: Cheese texture problem (Jack Schmidling) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:57:02 -0500 From: Joseph Steuer Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hello, I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? Best, Joseph ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:43:22 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too soft. Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are pressing and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. If i wan full fat cheese, i use regular milk. In any case, try low weights the first few times you put your curds in the press, and after you've turned your cheese for the second or third time, and you want to make really hard cheese, give it a greater weight over night. Make sure your curd contains enough fat, so don't cut it too small or it will end up looking like compressed ricotta. Cooking temp is very important, so make sure you control it as much as you can. a couple of degrees too hot and it will end up too dry/crumbly too. albert On 12/17/06, Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Dry cheese? > > If using non-fat powdered milk, > cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. > > Calvin > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/16151b67/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:49:32 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211949g68d85dbcn17757c320f4683e5 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 30% solution by weight. Leeners sells it at that concentration. It works for me. I have yet to get my hands on the "dry" stuff and make my own batches of solution. Actually is not by weight as in pounds, but by mass. So if you are making a kilogram of solution, 30% of the total mass should be made up of salts. On 12/17/06, Dave Turco wrote: > > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/28c86a40/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:57:06 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw Cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211957o3920cb39w3944ba9340e9b2b5 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you shoot google with a "hot to make cheese" this page will pop http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html The man is a bio and chem professor in some university in the northen us. He has been making goat cheeses fince forever. Go ther, do, he has some very nice walkthroughs and a LOT of info, even on how to handle your goats. Have fun and happy holydays to all. Albert. On 12/12/06, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make > cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep > the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which > works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the > recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/0f0db608/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:07:09 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <458B59ED.2080709 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Joseph Steuer wrote: > Hello, > I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do > not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? If it is soft cheese, it will probably spoil before it ripens in the usual sense. All you can do is taste it and call it done when you like the taste. If you want a traditional blue cheese, you need a much drier curd and usually some light pressing. Check out my Stilton recipe to get an idea of what is involved. If you use goat cheese you might want to add extra cream to the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:31:18 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <458B5F96.3070700 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Albert Ortiz wrote: > Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always > fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too > soft. Then something else is wrong. Cooking temp/time, draining time, cheddaring, all of these things determine whether the cheese will be hard or soft. Pressing is just a finishing process. Before it even goes into the press, the curds should be a good squeaky chew. Most authors liken the texture to chicken breast and this is very much the way it must be before it is put into the press. The biggest problem with commercial milk, no matter what form, is cutting and initial cooking. The curd is extremely fragile and if not treated very carefully, the cheese will fail. It should only be stirred enough to keep it from scorching on the bottom for about the first ten minutes. By stirring, I mean only moving it around slowly. Stirring in the normal sense will destroy it. After about 10 mins it will firm up and be indistinguishable from fresh milk from a cow sort of cheese. >Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are > pressing > and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed > kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. Low fat cheese is an oxymoron. It simply can not be made at home. It will always be hard and unpalatable. >If i wan full fat cheese, i > use regular milk. Again, if it is homogenized, you will get bricks if you try to make cheddar but for different reasons. Most of the fat in homogenized milk will be lost in the process and result in a "low fat" cheese as above. If you start with low fat milk and add cream you can produce an excellent cheddar if you do everything else right. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 ************************************** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006 3:22 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006 3:22 PM From arf at mc.net Sat Dec 23 08:43:42 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:43:42 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <458D328E.20805@mc.net> Mike Willett wrote: > I'd like to make 2 cheese presses using about 1.5 ft. each of 4 in. and 6. > in. PVC. Can I just use the PVC on an upside-down plate with a follower and > a weight arangement on top of the cheese? Sure but the trick is to get 50 lbs of weight into the tube or on top of the follower in such a way that it is stable. As a point of order, your message contained the entire thread and a meaningless subject. Please edit out non-relevant text from messages. It is also a good idea to edit the subject to relate to the topic. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From zj06 at aub.edu.lb Tue Dec 26 08:44:51 2006 From: zj06 at aub.edu.lb (Ziad D. Jaber) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:44:51 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1167140691.45912753a6530@imail.aub.edu.lb> Dear all,Merry Christmas and happy new year. This is my first contribution and I want to thank you all for making this site so interesting and informative. I supervise a small dairy plant located in the Agricultural Research and Educational Center that belongs to the American University of Beirut- Lebanon. The goal of this dairy plant is to teach the food technology students of AUB, train the dairy producers and farmers of Lebanon and Middle East, and conduct research and experiments on new and improved local varieties of cheeses. I have been using vacuum packing for conserving hard cheeses during ripening for more than two years. The results are just great. I t is very important to mention that the cheese has to have at the correct degree of moisture and salt, the cheese surface has to be clean and the bag has to be sterile. Also very essential is the vacuum pressure and the secure sealing of the bag. Some of the cheeses that we apply this technology on are Kachkaval, Havarti, Parmesan. For cheeses that require oxygen during ripening and as a method of maintaining the moisture level we sometimes use ordinary plastic bags that we inflate with a balloon inflater and close with a band such cheeses are the Brie and Blue the results are also fine. Thanks again for the managing people and thanks a lot for all the contributers and mailers. Ziad Jaber ( Beirut- Lebanon) Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:52:38 -0600 > From: "Elizabeth Cameron" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: > Message-ID: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41 at POOTER> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is > encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of > vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum > sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is > good for the cheese. > > Happy Christmas! > Elizabeth > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061214/5281e5c3/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:35:43 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <4582342F.4030208 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you > > (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of > > waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, > > compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. > > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:30:09 -0600 > From: "ggilks" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <005d01c7203c$64d892b0$0200a8c0 at yourm5d4u9r2uv> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > We have Jersey cows and I make cheese from raw milk all the time. Also cream > cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc,etc. It is wonderful. Happy > Holidays Ina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elizabeth Cameron > To: cheese at hbd.org > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > > > Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is > encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of > vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum > sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is > good for the cheese. > > Happy Christmas! > Elizabeth > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061215/f869df0c/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:58:13 -0500 > From: "Calvin Gadbury" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce at youro0kwkw9jwc> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Jack Wrote: > > > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > > > js > > > > > > > Jack and All Others, > > Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in > Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. > > He mentions Parakote Wrappers;? > Cello-Cello-Parakote Lamination? > > Cryovac? > > Calvin > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 > ************************************** > > From mavityre at comcast.net Thu Dec 7 18:58:09 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 15:58:09 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> Hello folks. It's been a year or so. I'm back into making cheese again. Brian From ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz Fri Dec 8 00:39:53 2006 From: ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz (Ubonsri) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:39:53 +1300 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Hello Friends, That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > Hello folks. > It's been a year or so. > I'm back into making cheese again. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/6832eae5/attachment-0004.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 01:10:39 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:10:39 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207155702.01950ba0@comcast.net> <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207220716.019534d0@comcast.net> Wow. What's happened since I've been gone? It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share bleu cheese's with others. Tends to crossover to the others............ Brian At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: >Hello Friends, > >That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > >Ubonsri > >On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061207/ce2c9f9a/attachment-0004.html From ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz Fri Dec 8 03:25:33 2006 From: ubonsri.peacock at quicksilver.net.nz (Ubonsri) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 21:25:33 +1300 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061207220716.019534d0@comcast.net> References: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Well, I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > Wow. > What's happened since I've been gone? > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share > bleu cheese's with others. > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > Brian > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > Hello Friends, > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > Ubonsri > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/1500cf3c/attachment-0004.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 11:04:14 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:04:14 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> References: <4579B179.25819.5574F@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> <4579D84D.25678.9D016B@ubonsri.peacock.quicksilver.net.nz> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208080124.019c9c28@comcast.net> I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. I give up on the bleu cheeses. These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. Brian At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/30ef3214/attachment-0004.html From mstaver at kendall.edu Fri Dec 8 11:39:38 2006 From: mstaver at kendall.edu (Michael J. Staver) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:39:38 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back Message-ID: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendall.edu> If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist after 9 months? Michael ________________________________ From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM To: The Cheese Makers' Digest Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. I give up on the bleu cheeses. These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. Brian At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: Well, I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? Ubonsri On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > Wow. > What's happened since I've been gone? > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really into it. I realize now, don't share > bleu cheese's with others. > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > Brian > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > Hello Friends, > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > Ubonsri > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > Hello folks. > > It's been a year or so. > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/bf4bd8f7/attachment-0004.html From patrickmann at hotmail.com Fri Dec 8 12:13:38 2006 From: patrickmann at hotmail.com (Patrick Mann) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:13:38 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) Message-ID: My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=wl_wlmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/7d874347/attachment-0004.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 13:02:39 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:02:39 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] I'm back In-Reply-To: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendal l.edu> References: <0E917B3F811F1442BE0193A68D78504501FCC8DC@RWEXCHANGE.kendall.edu> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208095820.01953ca8@comcast.net> I don't know. I haven't been doing it long enough. I think it wasn't humid enough. Brian At 08:39 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C71AE7.74714326" > >If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist >after 9 months? Michael > > >---------- >From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On >Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity >Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM >To: The Cheese Makers' Digest >Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back > >I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I >just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 >months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. >I give up on the bleu cheeses. >These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. > >Brian > > > >At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: > >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ea1f96be/attachment-0004.html From mavityre at comcast.net Fri Dec 8 13:03:57 2006 From: mavityre at comcast.net (Brian N. Mavity) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:03:57 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208100256.019a42e8@comcast.net> I have the same problem. I have heard about some stuff you can brush on it before you wax it. Also, it could be that it has too much moisture still in it. Brian At 09:13 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. >Any tips on how to prevent this? >Thanks, > Patrick > > >---------- >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day >trial! >Learn >more! >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/d4484aa0/attachment-0004.html From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Fri Dec 8 13:02:56 2006 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (kathy) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:02:56 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: Message-ID: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> Patrick, Try a little potassium sorbate solution. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/e5e6216d/attachment-0004.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 16:14:46 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:14:46 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> kathy wrote: > Patrick, > > Try a little potassium sorbate solution. That's interesting and I wonder what the mechanism involved is. On the other hand, one of the problems I see is the paranoia about burning down the house by heating wax to a temperature that can go a long way in preventing mold. Melting in a double boiler and/or brushing on with a brush is simply coating it with wax. If the wax is heated to 200F or more and the cheese submerged in this for about ten seconds, the surface is effectively sterilized or at least "sanitized" as they say in brewing. This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Fri Dec 8 16:38:30 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:38:30 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> Message-ID: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? Are you referring to the burn damage or something that should be watched out for in terms of cheesemaking and the quality of the cheese? Thanks, Doug On Dec 8, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 19:01:43 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:01:43 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> References: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0@aoldsl.net> <4579D5C6.6070905@mc.net> <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476@swlaw.edu> Message-ID: <4579FCE7.5070000@mc.net> Doug Snyder wrote: > When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? I am referring to possibility of the cheese slipping out of your hand and dropping into the hot wax, splashing this all over the place including your face. If you dip half of it into the wax, it is pretty easy to hang on to but the next dip (after cooling) has you holding onto the waxed side which can be slippery. I find that latex gloves give a pretty good grip on it. The safest method is to put the cheese into some sort of basket and dip the whole thing. I have used a steamer basket which works but I prefer the double dipping and just concentrate on hanging on and the disaster if I let it slip. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Fri Dec 8 20:15:02 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:15:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: Message-ID: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Some possibilities to ruminate on: 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by mechanical damage. 2. May have pin holes in wax coating when applied to cheese. Solutions: use colored wax to see unwaxed areas better and wax two times for a better seal 3. If reusing wax, must be hot enough to kill all mold cantaminations in the wax 4. Wax temperature too low to kill mold contaminations on cheese surface Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ad7c415e/attachment-0004.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 8 23:53:29 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:53:29 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) In-Reply-To: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <457A4149.2050608@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > Some possibilities to ruminate on: > > > 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, > therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by > mechanical damage. According to Kozikowski, paraffin allows needed gas transfer and cheese wax does not. He recommends dipping in very hot paraffin and ripening for the first 30 days or so and then dipping in a more permanent (and pretty) cheese wax. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From dwturco at mhcable.com Sat Dec 9 11:48:04 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:48:04 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hoegger Goat Supply sells a cream wax that claims to prevent mold. Here's an exerpt from the online store. "Available for the first time to the home cheesemaker. Cream wax acts as a mold inhibitor on all hard cheeses. Simply hand apply a thin coating on the outside surface of your finished hard cheeses and allow to air dry thoroughly. Then cover with regular cheese wax. You'll never have to worry about mold spoiling your valuable hard cheese again." dt -----Original Message----- From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org]On Behalf Of cheese-request at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:35 PM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to cheese at hbd.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cheese-request at hbd.org You can reach the person managing the list at cheese-owner at hbd.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." Today's Topics: 1. mold (the bad kind) (Patrick Mann) 2. Re: I'm back (Brian N. Mavity) 3. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Brian N. Mavity) 4. Re: mold (the bad kind) (kathy) 5. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Jack Schmidling) 6. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Doug Snyder) 7. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Jack Schmidling) 8. Re: mold (the bad kind) (Calvin Gadbury) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:13:38 -0800 From: Patrick Mann Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial! http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/trial.aspx?sc_cid=wl_wlmail -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/7d874347/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:02:39 -0800 From: "Brian N. Mavity" Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208095820.01953ca8 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't know. I haven't been doing it long enough. I think it wasn't humid enough. Brian At 08:39 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >Content-class: urn:content-classes:message >Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C71AE7.74714326" > >If the Romano was stored differently would it have been more moist >after 9 months? Michael > > >---------- >From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org] On >Behalf Of Brian N. Mavity >Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:04 AM >To: The Cheese Makers' Digest >Subject: Re: [Cheese] I'm back > >I have a couple of cheddars I'm going to break into this holiday. I >just got into a Romano I let age too long. It was supposded to go 3 >months but I forgot about it. (9 months) It tastes good but is very dry. >I give up on the bleu cheeses. >These are all just for me, I don't do this commercially. > >Brian > > > >At 12:25 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: > >Well, > >I am a new comer who is interesting in making cheese, how is going >with your cheese, have you made for comercial or homemade ? > >Ubonsri >On 7 Dec 2006 at 22:10, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Wow. > > What's happened since I've been gone? > > > > It used to be a place to share recipes and failures (mostly mine). > > > > I must admit, when I got into it January of 2006, I was really > into it. I realize now, don't share > > bleu cheese's with others. > > Tends to crossover to the others............ > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > At 09:39 PM 12/7/2006, you wrote: > > Hello Friends, > > > > That's nice, hopefully we can change the opinion about making cheese. > > > > Ubonsri > > > > On 7 Dec 2006 at 15:58, Brian N. Mavity wrote: > > > > > Hello folks. > > > It's been a year or so. > > > I'm back into making cheese again. > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Cheese mailing list > > > Cheese at hbd.org > > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ea1f96be/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:03:57 -0800 From: "Brian N. Mavity" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061208100256.019a42e8 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have the same problem. I have heard about some stuff you can brush on it before you wax it. Also, it could be that it has too much moisture still in it. Brian At 09:13 AM 12/8/2006, you wrote: >My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. >Any tips on how to prevent this? >Thanks, > Patrick > > >---------- >All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day >trial! >Learn >more! >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/d4484aa0/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:02:56 -0600 From: "kathy" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <010801c71af3$16f6da00$6601a8c0 at aoldsl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Patrick, Try a little potassium sorbate solution. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/e5e6216d/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:14:46 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <4579D5C6.6070905 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed kathy wrote: > Patrick, > > Try a little potassium sorbate solution. That's interesting and I wonder what the mechanism involved is. On the other hand, one of the problems I see is the paranoia about burning down the house by heating wax to a temperature that can go a long way in preventing mold. Melting in a double boiler and/or brushing on with a brush is simply coating it with wax. If the wax is heated to 200F or more and the cheese submerged in this for about ten seconds, the surface is effectively sterilized or at least "sanitized" as they say in brewing. This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:38:30 -0800 From: "Doug Snyder" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1C3D8BAB-841C-48AF-A5DC-817790510476 at swlaw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? Are you referring to the burn damage or something that should be watched out for in terms of cheesemaking and the quality of the cheese? Thanks, Doug On Dec 8, 2006, at 1:14 PM, Jack Schmidling wrote: This must be done carefully of course but it is they way it is done commercially and works. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 18:01:43 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <4579FCE7.5070000 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Doug Snyder wrote: > When you say "carefully" what are you referring to specifically? I am referring to possibility of the cheese slipping out of your hand and dropping into the hot wax, splashing this all over the place including your face. If you dip half of it into the wax, it is pretty easy to hang on to but the next dip (after cooling) has you holding onto the waxed side which can be slippery. I find that latex gloves give a pretty good grip on it. The safest method is to put the cheese into some sort of basket and dip the whole thing. I have used a steamer basket which works but I prefer the double dipping and just concentrate on hanging on and the disaster if I let it slip. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:15:02 -0500 From: "Calvin Gadbury" Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce at youro0kwkw9jwc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Some possibilities to ruminate on: 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by mechanical damage. 2. May have pin holes in wax coating when applied to cheese. Solutions: use colored wax to see unwaxed areas better and wax two times for a better seal 3. If reusing wax, must be hot enough to kill all mold cantaminations in the wax 4. Wax temperature too low to kill mold contaminations on cheese surface Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Mann To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) My hard cheeses all developed mold under the paraffin wax coating. Any tips on how to prevent this? Thanks, Patrick ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! Learn more! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061208/ad7c415e/attachment.htm l ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 ************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061209/763ee930/attachment-0004.html From arf at mc.net Sat Dec 9 11:57:44 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 10:57:44 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <457AEB08.40002@mc.net> Dave Turco wrote: > Hoegger Goat Supply sells a cream wax that claims to prevent mold. Here's > an exerpt from the online store. Save your money. It does not work. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 9 15:02:17 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:02:17 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) References: <004a01c71b2f$7545f3c0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> <457A4149.2050608@mc.net> Message-ID: <008901c71bcc$ee8ec200$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Agreed: For those who would like to look it up for themselves: It is in Cheese and Fermented Mild Foods by Frank V. Kozikowski, second edition, third printing on pages 647-649. For those who don't have access to the above and are interested I have quoted the main points below: "Paraffin wax is customarily appled to young cheese encased in cloth bandages at a temperature of 118 degrees C for 5 seconds. Cheese paraffin wax loses some water, but at a much lower rate than unwaxed cheese. Carbon dioxide, Hydrogen sulfide and other gases can diffuse through the wax." "Other forms of wax are available. One (Kozikwoski names these flexible waxes, some call cheese waxes, they have divers working temperatures) is applied over the first paraffin wax layer, usually for long hold, ripened cheeses. Compared to paraffin wax, this second form of wax displays more flexibility and a lower water vapor transmission. However, it does not provide as rapid a CO2 passage. This is an important factor which limits its use in the early period of ripening when Carbon dioxide is produced most extensively. The second wax layer lor long hold cheese is often applied after 30 days or longer, using the same principles and precautions for paraffin wax." "A third form is a low temperature, flexible type. It is used for 5 to 10 gift wheels... Cheese is dipped into this wax at about 80 degrees C for 6 seconds, which does not give it the same protection against mold as the other two forms of wax... Limiting the cheese dipping to 6 seconds prevents fat oiling-off and discoloration... Bubbles of air and mold growth under cheese wax surfaces are prevented by waxing only cheese which has dry surfaces, and by using the maximum recommended heating temperatures for wax." He also has a table to go with the above that repeats and elaborates on the above I won't repeat here, but the main points for protection against mold under the wax are: Wax only cheese with dry surface Heat wax to 118C (245F) Immerse in wax for 5 to 6 seconds Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schmidling" To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] mold (the bad kind) > Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Some possibilities to ruminate on: > > > > > > 1. Paraffin is more brittle and subject to cracking than cheese wax, > > therefore mold can access cheese through tiny cracks caused by > > mechanical damage. > > According to Kozikowski, paraffin allows needed gas transfer and cheese > wax does not. > > He recommends dipping in very hot paraffin and ripening for the first 30 > days or so and then dipping in a more permanent (and pretty) cheese wax. > > js > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From dwturco at mhcable.com Sat Dec 9 18:59:28 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 18:59:28 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My problem is the texture of all my cheeses. They are more crumbly then creamy. I've tried everything including the powdered milk with heavy cream. Don't know what to do next except try to get my hands on fresh milk. Any suggestions? From dairyl at drenik.net Sun Dec 10 12:05:35 2006 From: dairyl at drenik.net (Milos Bogdanovic) Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 17:05:35 -0000 Subject: [Cheese] (no subject) Message-ID: <000a01c71c7d$6b8fe2b0$eb62c8d4@PC> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061210/47a71d16/attachment-0004.html From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 13:27:44 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:27:44 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream Message-ID: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? I realize this may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? Thanks for the advice. Scott From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Mon Dec 11 21:28:46 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:28:46 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem References: Message-ID: <013901c71d95$40fbe0d0$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Dave If crumbly and dry. Can be: 1. Not enough rennet. 2. Cutting curd to small. 3. Rough stirring. 4. If curd scalded, scalding temp. to high.. 5. When pressed, initial pressure too high. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Turco" To: Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem > My problem is the texture of all my cheeses. They are more crumbly then > creamy. I've tried everything including the powdered milk with heavy cream. > Don't know what to do next except try to get my hands on fresh milk. Any > suggestions? > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From arf at mc.net Mon Dec 11 23:38:34 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:38:34 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream In-Reply-To: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> References: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <457E324A.8040905@mc.net> bobobrazil10 wrote: > I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that > had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked > like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to > try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? Not a chance but taste it... you might like it but you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. > I realize this > may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? Right and it's not dumb at all. Just a sign of a thinking brain that just needs a little more data to work it out and that's what the list provides. If it was pasteurized cream it is probably spoiled as opposed to sour. Sour cream is ripened with specific bacteria that makes it taste good. If it was pasteurized and ripened, it is more likely than not ripened with something that will not make it taste or even smell good. If you like the smell, taste it... who knows but it will not be Brie. Read my recipe for Brie/Camembert to get an idea of what is involved in making a cheese. Keep thinking... js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elianeal at copper.net Tue Dec 12 12:53:14 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:53:14 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Message-ID: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/76f58dc9/attachment-0004.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Tue Dec 12 12:57:37 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream References: <457DA320.8010601@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <015301c71e17$03ad5240$2d6d94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Scott, Micogorganisms are the fastest mutating forms of life on the planet, so there is always some type of opportunity popping up for the venturer to take advantage of. Let us know what happens. Remember though, for each new bacteria or mold strain that might make a new cheese, there is one that might make the venturer sick. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "bobobrazil10" To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 1:27 PM Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream > I'm a neophyte cheese maker. Today I found some old heavy cream that > had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months. It looked > like sour cream, but smelled like Brie. Is there a good reason not to > try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie? I realize this > may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? > Thanks for the advice. > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From kathy at badgerpressinc.com Tue Dec 12 12:57:55 2006 From: kathy at badgerpressinc.com (kathy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:57:55 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <014301c71e17$0d8130c0$6601a8c0@SBC> Elizabeth, I am jealous...I'd love to have access to fresh goat milk. My dad was in the dairy industry most of his life...his company manufactured coagulants, enzymes and the like. I'll pose your question to him, but I think he's out of town, so it may take a few days. I'd actually like to get him on this list, but he's not the most computer literate person. Regards, Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/df089514/attachment-0004.html From kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us Tue Dec 12 13:03:25 2006 From: kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us (Nancy Krogh) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:03:25 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <001301c71e17$d1cc3290$0535630a@WVLCCIRC> hello, we make raw milk cheese form cows milk. ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/40db0fc0/attachment-0004.html From kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us Tue Dec 12 13:06:08 2006 From: kroghn at clark.lib.wv.us (Nancy Krogh) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:06:08 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <002901c71e18$32d9c750$0535630a@WVLCCIRC> sorry i cut myself off ! YES YES YOU CAN MAKE HARD CHEESE! Although i am not sure about goats . They all tell you to psteurize , i think there is a reason Louis Pasteure was run out of France !!!!! they don't hardly pasteurize anyhting!!!! ha ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/51a6cb70/attachment-0004.html From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Tue Dec 12 13:12:18 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:12:18 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: Hi there, I make cheese from raw goat's milk. I have made the softer cheeses also, but am about to embark on hard cheeses. I'm not at home now, so I don't have my French goat cheese book, but pasteurization has only been around, well, since Pasteur, I suppose. People have been making cheese, hard and soft, without pasteurization forever. In France, they still do in many places. Actually, you can buy raw milk hard cheeses these days (as long as they are aged, I think, 60 days) in the U.S. You do not have to pasteurize, as long as you are comfortable with the risks (you can look those up). I happen to be comfortable with the risks. I likely wouldn't serve the cheese to a pregnant woman, and in U.S. you shouldn't sell those cheeses without proper licenses, but for your consumption, you should be fine. Oh, and raw milk cheese tastes better too (but you know that). Best, Joseph On Dec 12, 2006, at 12:53 PM, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody > make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would > prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk > raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this > for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/6297eb69/attachment-0004.html From dwturco at mhcable.com Tue Dec 12 18:16:03 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dwturco) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:16:03 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Crumbly & Dry Message-ID: <20061213005129.3CE05E72A0@smtp2.mhcable.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061212/4fe01d24/attachment-0004.html From arf at mc.net Tue Dec 12 22:57:30 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:57:30 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <457F7A2A.6020008@mc.net> Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody > make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer > to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for > chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard > cheeses. Fresh milk has the potential to produce better cheese because of the natural flora and fauna. Fresh milk can contain pathogenic organisms along with the good stuff so if there is any doubt, it should be Pasteurized, especially for fresh cheese. Aging hard cheese reduces the likelihood that the bad stuff will survive so it is far safer than fresh cheese. If you have survived your fresh cheese efforts and drink the milk that way, it would indicate that the milk is probably safe. Use fresh milk exactly like you would use pasteurized milk except that you can dispense with the calcium chloride but you still must use the usual starters to assure the timely acidification. The natural stuff will still be there to add character as it ages. You might also find that your goat milk is lacking in butterfat for a nice smooth cheese so try upping the level by adding extra cream if you can separate it. Good luck, js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Tue Dec 12 23:32:15 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:32:15 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] raw milk Message-ID: <200612130433.kBD4WVk8015412@brew.hbd.org>

Hi,
I am new to the conversation, and have a question.  Does anybody make
cheese from raw fresh milk?  I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep
the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which
works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses.  Most of
the recipes say to pasteurize.

Thanks.
Elizabeth

Greetings. Below are comments that are on my website www.moonwiseherbs.com regarding raw milk cheese making. I have a cheese page with a recipe for a farmers cheese that is great made with goat milk. This cheese is a fresh hard cheese, if you will. It is a good place to start-you can go to the page for the recipe: http://moonwiseherbs.com/cheesepage.htm Hope that is helpful. Linda

 Historically all cheese was made with farm fresh raw milk. There is a growing desire and movement that is incorporating farm fresh raw milk back into the American diet. Many people are coming to understand that pasteurization destroys nutrients and creates a product that is not easily digested. If you would like to read more about the health benefits of raw milk and/or find a source for raw milk in your area see www.realmilk.com. 

Also remember that not all raw milk is the same. If you are milking your own animals-you know what the conditions of your milk are. If you are purchasing milk become an informed consumer.  Read about best farm practices and interview the farmer you are purchasing milk from. Visit and tour the farm, make sure the farm is clean and that the animals are being let out to pasture. Be sure the farmer drinks the milk and that it is strained shortly after milking. 

As I started making cheese, I realized that it is impossible to make decent cheese from the milk you purchase in the store. If you are nervous about raw milk and want to make cheese the best luck you will have is with low heat pasteurized milk. Most milk is high heat or ultra-pasteurized, although some organic producers do low heat pasteurize. Just call the company and they should be happy to tell you what their practices are.

Pasteurization: particularly high heat pasteurization destroys proteins and leaves very little to coagulate or curdle-this is why enzymes and calcium chloride are added in the cheese making process when pasteurized milk is used. When I contemplate this I imagine that food which has been destroyed to this extent cannot be healthful. Most cheese makers are adding ingredients to help pasteurize milk coagulate, when raw milk has all it needs to form a nice curd and a flavorful product as well as eliminate unwanted bacteria.  

I would also occasionally purchase "raw milk" cheese. One day I was at a local farmers market talking to a vendor who was selling "raw milk" cheese and she informed me that they actually do low heat pasteurize the milk and that legally they can label their product "raw milk" cheese. Not all producers do this, many small artisan producers do make truly raw milk cheese, but many of the larger scale producers (even organic) are using this practice. If the cheese is not pasteurized it is required that it be aged for at least 60 days (theoretically the acid level would be high enough at this point to eliminate potentially harmful bacteria). Fresh cheese (not aged) that is made with raw milk cannot be purchased.

In order to know what is in the cheese that I eat I have decided to make most of my own cheese and only on occasion selectively purchase cheese from small artisans cheese makers. So that said I make all of my cheese fresh as well as aged from farm fresh raw milk.


 

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Tue Dec 12 23:37:54 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:37:54 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Brie? Message-ID: <200612130438.kBD4cE7a015615@brew.hbd.org>

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:27:44 -0500
From: bobobrazil10
Subject: [Cheese] Cheese from soured cream
To: cheese at hbd.org
Message-ID: <457DA320.8010601 at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I'm a neophyte cheese maker.  Today I found some old heavy cream that
had been in the back of a friend's refrigerator for 3 months.  It looked

like sour cream, but smelled like Brie.  Is there a good reason not to
try to use this to innoculate some milk and make Brie?  I realize this
may be a dumb question, but that's what mailing lists are for, right? 
Thanks for the advice.

Scott

If this smells and tastes good, you can make cheese from it. While it would not be Brie, it could turn out to be something really good. And it is true pasteurized milk, cream, milk products that are not cultured rot. But if this is cultured it might very well be your very own creation that turns out to be delicious. Don't be afraid to experiment!

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From Wailingcoyote at aol.com Wed Dec 13 08:12:10 2006 From: Wailingcoyote at aol.com (Wailingcoyote@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:12:10 EST Subject: [Cheese] Brie? Message-ID: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> I WANT THESE "CHESE" EM'S TO STOP --- STOP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/09821700/attachment-0004.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Wed Dec 13 08:54:48 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:54:48 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <004201c71ebe$dfe82120$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Elizabeth, Yes, we make cheese from raw milk. Pateurization has its place and has saved alot of illness. But remember pasteurization is not sterilization and does not kill all the mircoorganisms, most people swear they are the same thing and the dairy industry does nothing to discourage this belief. Pasteurization lowers the bacteria numbers to number level that is below the threshold number that will cause illness in most of the population. So if a person practices good hygiene "to the maximum" when harvesting his cheese milk he can be nearly as pathogenic free as what is gotten at the store. One micro I am some what leary of is the Listeria group. An inffection of this group has a reputation of causing death in infants yet to be born. Listeria is a cold loving bacterium and multiplies readily at 40 F. This is a special case where it is best if raw milk is turned in to cheese right away, it safest. We make our cheeses as soon as we bring the milk in from the barn possible. About the time we get it ready for innoculation the milk temperature is 86 F. I put it in a double boiler with 86 F water and I don't have to turn on the stove till after renneting and cutting. Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: Cheese at hbd.org Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 12:53 PM Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Hi, I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the recipes say to pasteurize. Thanks. Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/86161aa1/attachment-0004.html From Wailingcoyote at aol.com Wed Dec 13 09:05:15 2006 From: Wailingcoyote at aol.com (Wailingcoyote@aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:05:15 EST Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese Message-ID: GO TO H--L -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/06ac4f51/attachment-0004.html From hollen at woodsprite.com Wed Dec 13 10:43:28 2006 From: hollen at woodsprite.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:43:28 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: >GO TO H--L >_______________________________________________ >Cheese mailing list >Cheese at hbd.org >http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not be allowed on the internet. From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Wed Dec 13 11:02:28 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:02:28 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061213084034.0227cee8@woodsprite.com> Message-ID: <8611819A-BC38-44AA-840B-AB8CF565B286@earthlink.net> I second that emotion. On Dec 13, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Dion Hollenbeck wrote: > At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: >> GO TO H--L >> _______________________________________________ >> Cheese mailing list >> Cheese at hbd.org >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the > information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the > link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not > be allowed on the internet. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Wed Dec 13 12:54:46 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:54:46 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Brie? In-Reply-To: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> References: <4a9.3a769a6f.32b1562a@aol.com> Message-ID: I want a pony. Doug On Dec 13, 2006, at 5:12 AM, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: I WANT THESE "CHESE" EM'S TO STOP --- STOP _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/c5224ba4/attachment-0004.html From ssarge2 at owc.net Wed Dec 13 18:11:28 2006 From: ssarge2 at owc.net (SS2) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:11:28 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Wailing Coyote (was: Raw Cheese) Message-ID: <001701c71f0c$06236500$6400a8c0@cssuvjea4qmy3w> IN that guy's defense. I unsubscribed but continued to get the emails. They've actually been interesting lately and informative so I'm glad my "unsubscribing didn't work. Everyone here seems so nice and accomodating. Extend that to this guy. Consider it your holiday gift to him.(or her?) Wishing everyone here a wonderful, safe holiday and a prosperous, healthy and "cheesey" New Year. Susie On 12/13/2006 10:02:28 AM, Joseph Steuer (joseph.steuer at earthlink.net) wrote: > I second that emotion. > On Dec 13, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Dion Hollenbeck wrote: > > > At 07:05 AM 12/13/2006, Wailingcoyote at aol.com wrote: > >> GO TO H--L > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Cheese mailing list > >> Cheese at hbd.org > >> http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > > > > You are a real piece of work, idiot!! Can you not read the > > information at the bottom of EVERY posting to the list? Follow the > > link and remove yourself from the list. Idiots like you should not > > be allowed on the internet. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cheese mailing list > > Cheese at hbd.org > > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061213/47593729/attachment-0004.html From reich_stuff at yahoo.com Wed Dec 13 19:13:08 2006 From: reich_stuff at yahoo.com (Steven Reich) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:13:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Cheese] Please remove me from the list Message-ID: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> Please remove me from the list From dsnyder at swlaw.edu Wed Dec 13 19:26:26 2006 From: dsnyder at swlaw.edu (Doug Snyder) Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:26:26 -0800 Subject: [Cheese] Please remove me from the list In-Reply-To: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061214001308.39910.qmail@web60414.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Here's the link: http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese Go there and enter your info and if you still get emails after a couple days let us know. Doug On Dec 13, 2006, at 4:13 PM, Steven Reich wrote: Please remove me from the list _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese From elianeal at copper.net Thu Dec 14 20:52:38 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:52:38 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing Message-ID: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. Happy Christmas! Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061214/5281e5c3/attachment-0004.html From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 15 00:35:43 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:35:43 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing In-Reply-To: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Message-ID: <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> Elizabeth Cameron wrote: Another thing I was wondering about is whether you > (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of > waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, > compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then what is the point... might as well eat it. It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From ggilks at hughes.net Fri Dec 15 06:30:09 2006 From: ggilks at hughes.net (ggilks) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:30:09 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> Message-ID: <005d01c7203c$64d892b0$0200a8c0@yourm5d4u9r2uv> We have Jersey cows and I make cheese from raw milk all the time. Also cream cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc,etc. It is wonderful. Happy Holidays Ina ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Cameron To: cheese at hbd.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. Happy Christmas! Elizabeth ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061215/f869df0c/attachment-0004.html From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Fri Dec 15 09:58:13 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:58:13 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> Message-ID: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Jack Wrote: > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > js > > Jack and All Others, Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. He mentions Parakote Wrappers;? Cello-Cello-Parakote Lamination? Cryovac? Calvin From arf at mc.net Fri Dec 15 12:32:08 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:32:08 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing In-Reply-To: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41@POOTER> <4582342F.4030208@mc.net> <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <4582DC18.2020604@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > Jack and All Others, > > Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in > Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. Not I. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 15 21:47:00 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:47:00 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] CaCl2-What's it for? Message-ID: <45835E24.1060205@yahoo.com> Why do many cheese recipes ask for Calcium Chloride to be added? Does rennet require it? Does dry milk powder have enough CaCl2 in it to avoid needing to add more? My batches of milk seem to produce nice looking curd without adding extra calcium. Will this ruin the cheese 1 month later? Scott From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Dec 16 00:53:49 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese Message-ID: <200612160554.kBG5s4WX028440@brew.hbd.org>

The best way to cure cheese is to "bandagle" it or wrap it in oiled cheese cloth. When I have done this and put it in my root cellar I get great results, it gets moldy on the outside, but inside it is just as smooth as can be. I have vaccummed sealed in a pinch and the cheese is edilbe, but not as complex. Waxing is a better choice, if you are not going to "bandage" the cheese.

Blessings

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 16 15:55:50 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:55:50 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] CaCl2-What's it for? References: <45835E24.1060205@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <018401c72154$92420c40$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Scott Asks: > Why do many cheese recipes ask for Calcium Chloride to be added? Does > rennet require it? Does dry milk powder have enough CaCl2 in it to > avoid needing to add more? My batches of milk seem to produce nice > looking curd without adding extra calcium. Will this ruin the cheese 1 > month later? > > > > Scott Homogenized milk will often form a soft curd. Sometimes pasteurization and overheating can (overheating often will) cause a soft curd. A soft curd that is difficult to handle and sometimes carries more moisture than is wanted to develop a good hard cheese. Milk bought at the store will always be pasteurized in most states and amost always homogenized, and will often need CaCl2 added for good results. Many of the recipes for the hobby cheese maker assumes store purchased milk will be used, so the CaCl2 is recommended so as to prevent an unecessary disappointment by a first timer. The Ca++ ions in the milk are necessary to form the lattice work of proteins that forms the curd. Somehow the Ca++ ions get tied up and not available when pasteurizing and homogenizing milk and CaCl2 will correct such a deficiency. Pasteurizing by heating milk to 145F and holding for 30 minutes, hasn't caused any problems for me. Cooling the milk rapidly is thought to help maintain quality in flavor and fragrance. I have not heard of CaCl2 being added to powdered milk, but if it is it should be on the list of ingredients. To use or not use CaCl2 should not affect the final product if you get the quality of curds your looking for. According to Kosikowski Federal Standards of Identity for Natural Ripened Cheese limits the adddition of CaCl2 to a maximum of 0.02% by weight. I can tell you that the butterfat is removed before drying the milk, because dried milk with fat will go rancid at a much earlier date compared to dried milk without fat. The cheeses that require fat to develop a unique charateristic texture and flavor such as cheddar will benefit from having some cream added. Calvin From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sat Dec 16 16:44:02 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 14:44:02 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 12 Message-ID: <200612162144.kBGLiJms009114@brew.hbd.org>

Calcium chloride is used in pasteurized milk to firm up the curd. Basically you are adding something that gets detroyed during pasteurization. I use raw milk, so never add it, but if you are using pasteurized milk I would suggest trying it with and without and see if the curd is different.

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sat Dec 16 18:50:42 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 18:50:42 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese References: <200612160554.kBG5s4WX028440@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <019e01c7216d$00f952c0$d16c94ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Linda, Sounds like a good method, What kind of oil are you using. Regards Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Conroy" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 12:53 AM Subject: [Cheese] aging cheese >

The best way to cure cheese is to "bandagle" it or wrap it in oiled cheese cloth. When I have done this and put it in my root cellar I get great results, it gets moldy on the outside, but inside it is just as smooth as can be. I have vaccummed sealed in a pinch and the cheese is edilbe, but not as complex. Waxing is a better choice, if you are not going to "bandage" the cheese.

>

Blessings

>

Linda

>

www.moonwiseherbs.com

> > Blessings, > Linda > > From dwturco at mhcable.com Sun Dec 17 13:50:38 2006 From: dwturco at mhcable.com (Dave Turco) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:50:38 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sun Dec 17 15:15:18 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride References: Message-ID: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> one gallon milk weighs 8.6# I get: 8.6# x .02% = 0.172# CaCl2 or: 16 oz / 1# x 0.172 # = 2.75 oz CaCl2 by weight Calvin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Turco" To: Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:50 PM Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > From rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com Sun Dec 17 15:19:33 2006 From: rosemarygoddess at moonwiseherbs.com (Linda Conroy) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:19:33 -0700 Subject: [Cheese] [No Subject] Message-ID: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org>

Greetings. I use olive oil. It is thick and works well, I soak pieces of cheese cloth in the oil. The pieces are cut to fit on the top and bottom of the cheese, then a last pieces around the outside of the cheese. Works well.

Linda

www.moonwiseherbs.com

Linda,

Sounds like a good method,
What kind of oil are you using.

Regards
Calvin

Blessings, Linda www.moonwiseherbs.com Communication is to relationship what breath is to life. -Virginia Satir From arf at mc.net Sun Dec 17 18:45:59 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:45:59 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <001501c72218$13991ef0$ae7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <4585D6B7.3040502@mc.net> Calvin Gadbury wrote: > one gallon milk weighs 8.6# > I get: > > 8.6# x .02% = 0.172# CaCl2 > > or: 16 oz / 1# x 0.172 # = 2.75 oz CaCl2 by weight Not sure what you are basing your math on but calcium chloride for cheese making is sold in liquid form of an unknown concentration. If you use this preparation, you should follow the instructions that come with it. The bottle I have from Glengary says 1/4 tsp per 5 liters of milk. This should be diluted with 1/4 cup of water before mixing with the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Sun Dec 17 18:49:26 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:49:26 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] [No Subject] In-Reply-To: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org> References: <200612172020.kBHKJwGe019914@brew.hbd.org> Message-ID: <4585D786.7080802@mc.net> Linda Conroy wrote: >

Greetings. I use olive oil. It is thick and works well, I soak > pieces of cheese cloth in the oil. The pieces are cut to fit on the > top and bottom of the cheese, then a last pieces around the outside > of the cheese. Works well.

Linda

href="http://www.moonwiseherbs.com">www.moonwiseherbs.com

>

Linda,

Sounds like a good method,
What kind of oil are > you using.

Regards
Calvin

I hate to be a grouch but this sort of text is very tedious for mail readers. Please dig into your email client and turn off the html feature. If you need help doing this, please let us know and we will assist. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com Sun Dec 17 22:08:12 2006 From: cjgadbury at pcdoctors1.com (Calvin Gadbury) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 22:08:12 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem References: Message-ID: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Dry cheese? If using non-fat powdered milk, cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. Calvin From bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com Wed Dec 20 14:05:58 2006 From: bobobrazil10 at yahoo.com (bobobrazil10) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:05:58 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] Dry Jack Cheese Message-ID: <45898996.5070902@yahoo.com> My mother loves dry jack cheese from Vella Cheese in Sonoma California. I just bought her 2 lbs. for Christmas. Does anyone know a recipe for this? As a special gift I was going to try to make some for her by using Ricki's recipe http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/modules/jWallace/ChsPgs/3Jack_Ricki/Index.html but it's not clear to me when to put the oil, cocoa and pepper on the cheese, and whether to wax it afterwards. Thanks. Scott From joseph.steuer at earthlink.net Thu Dec 21 11:57:02 2006 From: joseph.steuer at earthlink.net (Joseph Steuer) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:57:02 -0500 Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese Message-ID: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> Hello, I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? Best, Joseph From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:43:22 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:43:22 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> References: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too soft. Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are pressing and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. If i wan full fat cheese, i use regular milk. In any case, try low weights the first few times you put your curds in the press, and after you've turned your cheese for the second or third time, and you want to make really hard cheese, give it a greater weight over night. Make sure your curd contains enough fat, so don't cut it too small or it will end up looking like compressed ricotta. Cooking temp is very important, so make sure you control it as much as you can. a couple of degrees too hot and it will end up too dry/crumbly too. albert On 12/17/06, Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Dry cheese? > > If using non-fat powdered milk, > cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. > > Calvin > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/16151b67/attachment-0004.html From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:49:32 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:49:32 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211949g68d85dbcn17757c320f4683e5@mail.gmail.com> 30% solution by weight. Leeners sells it at that concentration. It works for me. I have yet to get my hands on the "dry" stuff and make my own batches of solution. Actually is not by weight as in pounds, but by mass. So if you are making a kilogram of solution, 30% of the total mass should be made up of salts. On 12/17/06, Dave Turco wrote: > > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/28c86a40/attachment-0004.html From alhiem at gmail.com Thu Dec 21 22:57:06 2006 From: alhiem at gmail.com (Albert Ortiz) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:57:06 -0400 Subject: [Cheese] Raw Cheese In-Reply-To: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> References: <000e01c71e16$669e6980$63988841@POOTER> Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211957o3920cb39w3944ba9340e9b2b5@mail.gmail.com> If you shoot google with a "hot to make cheese" this page will pop http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html The man is a bio and chem professor in some university in the northen us. He has been making goat cheeses fince forever. Go ther, do, he has some very nice walkthroughs and a LOT of info, even on how to handle your goats. Have fun and happy holydays to all. Albert. On 12/12/06, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make > cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep > the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which > works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the > recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/0f0db608/attachment-0004.html From arf at mc.net Thu Dec 21 23:07:09 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:07:09 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese In-Reply-To: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> References: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <458B59ED.2080709@mc.net> Joseph Steuer wrote: > Hello, > I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do > not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? If it is soft cheese, it will probably spoil before it ripens in the usual sense. All you can do is taste it and call it done when you like the taste. If you want a traditional blue cheese, you need a much drier curd and usually some light pressing. Check out my Stilton recipe to get an idea of what is involved. If you use goat cheese you might want to add extra cream to the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From arf at mc.net Thu Dec 21 23:31:18 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:31:18 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem In-Reply-To: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <008201c72252$139987c0$5b7094ce@youro0kwkw9jwc> <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <458B5F96.3070700@mc.net> Albert Ortiz wrote: > Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always > fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too > soft. Then something else is wrong. Cooking temp/time, draining time, cheddaring, all of these things determine whether the cheese will be hard or soft. Pressing is just a finishing process. Before it even goes into the press, the curds should be a good squeaky chew. Most authors liken the texture to chicken breast and this is very much the way it must be before it is put into the press. The biggest problem with commercial milk, no matter what form, is cutting and initial cooking. The curd is extremely fragile and if not treated very carefully, the cheese will fail. It should only be stirred enough to keep it from scorching on the bottom for about the first ten minutes. By stirring, I mean only moving it around slowly. Stirring in the normal sense will destroy it. After about 10 mins it will firm up and be indistinguishable from fresh milk from a cow sort of cheese. >Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are > pressing > and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed > kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. Low fat cheese is an oxymoron. It simply can not be made at home. It will always be hard and unpalatable. >If i wan full fat cheese, i > use regular milk. Again, if it is homogenized, you will get bricks if you try to make cheddar but for different reasons. Most of the fat in homogenized milk will be lost in the process and result in a "low fat" cheese as above. If you start with low fat milk and add cream you can produce an excellent cheddar if you do everything else right. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From elianeal at copper.net Fri Dec 22 18:27:41 2006 From: elianeal at copper.net (Elizabeth Cameron) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:27:41 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Fankhauser cheese page Message-ID: <001101c72620$c8acdf50$29998841@POOTER> Hi, Albert, Thanks for recommending the Fankhauser Cheese page link. What a resource. There is an incredible amount of information there! Merry Christmas to all! Elizabeth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061222/97fe5639/attachment-0004.html From MTWillett at cox.net Fri Dec 22 23:14:24 2006 From: MTWillett at cox.net (Mike Willett) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:14:24 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'd like to make 2 cheese presses using about 1.5 ft. each of 4 in. and 6. in. PVC. Can I just use the PVC on an upside-down plate with a follower and a weight arangement on top of the cheese? ANY ideas appreciated. Thanks! Mike -----Original Message----- From: cheese-bounces at hbd.org [mailto:cheese-bounces at hbd.org]On Behalf Of cheese-request at hbd.org Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:00 AM To: cheese at hbd.org Subject: Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 Send Cheese mailing list submissions to cheese at hbd.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cheese-request at hbd.org You can reach the person managing the list at cheese-owner at hbd.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Cheese digest..." Today's Topics: 1. ripening soft goat cheese (Joseph Steuer) 2. Re: Cheese texture problem (Albert Ortiz) 3. Re: Using Calcium Chloride (Albert Ortiz) 4. Re: Raw Cheese (Albert Ortiz) 5. Re: ripening soft goat cheese (Jack Schmidling) 6. Re: Cheese texture problem (Jack Schmidling) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:57:02 -0500 From: Joseph Steuer Subject: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <390038E1-8214-4CC1-8349-1EA12FBFB098 at earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hello, I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? Best, Joseph ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:43:22 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211943m2b2039caw81f41b82f6e681b1 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too soft. Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are pressing and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. If i wan full fat cheese, i use regular milk. In any case, try low weights the first few times you put your curds in the press, and after you've turned your cheese for the second or third time, and you want to make really hard cheese, give it a greater weight over night. Make sure your curd contains enough fat, so don't cut it too small or it will end up looking like compressed ricotta. Cooking temp is very important, so make sure you control it as much as you can. a couple of degrees too hot and it will end up too dry/crumbly too. albert On 12/17/06, Calvin Gadbury wrote: > > Dry cheese? > > If using non-fat powdered milk, > cheese will be dry, maybe hard, without fat. > > Calvin > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/16151b67/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:49:32 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Using Calcium Chloride To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211949g68d85dbcn17757c320f4683e5 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 30% solution by weight. Leeners sells it at that concentration. It works for me. I have yet to get my hands on the "dry" stuff and make my own batches of solution. Actually is not by weight as in pounds, but by mass. So if you are making a kilogram of solution, 30% of the total mass should be made up of salts. On 12/17/06, Dave Turco wrote: > > Is there a standard quantity per gallon that should be used? Dave > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/28c86a40/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:57:06 -0400 From: "Albert Ortiz" Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw Cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <1e5a81050612211957o3920cb39w3944ba9340e9b2b5 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you shoot google with a "hot to make cheese" this page will pop http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Fankhauser/Cheese/Cheese.html The man is a bio and chem professor in some university in the northen us. He has been making goat cheeses fince forever. Go ther, do, he has some very nice walkthroughs and a LOT of info, even on how to handle your goats. Have fun and happy holydays to all. Albert. On 12/12/06, Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > > Hi, > I am new to the conversation, and have a question. Does anybody make > cheese from raw fresh milk? I have dairy goats and would prefer to keep > the enzymes alive in making cheese. I use the milk raw for chevre, which > works great, but don't know about doing this for hard cheeses. Most of the > recipes say to pasteurize. > > Thanks. > Elizabeth > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061221/0f0db608/attachment-000 1.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:07:09 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] ripening soft goat cheese To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <458B59ED.2080709 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Joseph Steuer wrote: > Hello, > I used pencillian on my soft goat cheese and it is ripening, but I do > not know when it is finished. Anybody have any thoughts? If it is soft cheese, it will probably spoil before it ripens in the usual sense. All you can do is taste it and call it done when you like the taste. If you want a traditional blue cheese, you need a much drier curd and usually some light pressing. Check out my Stilton recipe to get an idea of what is involved. If you use goat cheese you might want to add extra cream to the milk. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:31:18 -0600 From: Jack Schmidling Subject: Re: [Cheese] Cheese texture problem To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" Message-ID: <458B5F96.3070700 at mc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Albert Ortiz wrote: > Don't know how your dry-milk based cheeses end up, but mines always > fail. I have yet to make successful use of cream with my cheeses, it makes them too > soft. Then something else is wrong. Cooking temp/time, draining time, cheddaring, all of these things determine whether the cheese will be hard or soft. Pressing is just a finishing process. Before it even goes into the press, the curds should be a good squeaky chew. Most authors liken the texture to chicken breast and this is very much the way it must be before it is put into the press. The biggest problem with commercial milk, no matter what form, is cutting and initial cooking. The curd is extremely fragile and if not treated very carefully, the cheese will fail. It should only be stirred enough to keep it from scorching on the bottom for about the first ten minutes. By stirring, I mean only moving it around slowly. Stirring in the normal sense will destroy it. After about 10 mins it will firm up and be indistinguishable from fresh milk from a cow sort of cheese. >Which is not bad if you wanted a soft cheese, but if you are > pressing > and want to make a low fat type of cheeses, try low fat milk, not the boxed > kind, and add to it a bit of calcium chloride. Low fat cheese is an oxymoron. It simply can not be made at home. It will always be hard and unpalatable. >If i wan full fat cheese, i > use regular milk. Again, if it is homogenized, you will get bricks if you try to make cheddar but for different reasons. Most of the fat in homogenized milk will be lost in the process and result in a "low fat" cheese as above. If you start with low fat milk and add cream you can produce an excellent cheddar if you do everything else right. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Cheese mailing list Cheese at hbd.org http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 16 ************************************** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006 3:22 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/598 - Release Date: 12/22/2006 3:22 PM From arf at mc.net Sat Dec 23 08:43:42 2006 From: arf at mc.net (Jack Schmidling) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:43:42 -0600 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Press In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <458D328E.20805@mc.net> Mike Willett wrote: > I'd like to make 2 cheese presses using about 1.5 ft. each of 4 in. and 6. > in. PVC. Can I just use the PVC on an upside-down plate with a follower and > a weight arangement on top of the cheese? Sure but the trick is to get 50 lbs of weight into the tube or on top of the follower in such a way that it is stable. As a point of order, your message contained the entire thread and a meaningless subject. Please edit out non-relevant text from messages. It is also a good idea to edit the subject to relate to the topic. js -- PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com From zj06 at aub.edu.lb Tue Dec 26 08:44:51 2006 From: zj06 at aub.edu.lb (Ziad D. Jaber) Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 15:44:51 +0200 Subject: [Cheese] Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1167140691.45912753a6530@imail.aub.edu.lb> Dear all,Merry Christmas and happy new year. This is my first contribution and I want to thank you all for making this site so interesting and informative. I supervise a small dairy plant located in the Agricultural Research and Educational Center that belongs to the American University of Beirut- Lebanon. The goal of this dairy plant is to teach the food technology students of AUB, train the dairy producers and farmers of Lebanon and Middle East, and conduct research and experiments on new and improved local varieties of cheeses. I have been using vacuum packing for conserving hard cheeses during ripening for more than two years. The results are just great. I t is very important to mention that the cheese has to have at the correct degree of moisture and salt, the cheese surface has to be clean and the bag has to be sterile. Also very essential is the vacuum pressure and the secure sealing of the bag. Some of the cheeses that we apply this technology on are Kachkaval, Havarti, Parmesan. For cheeses that require oxygen during ripening and as a method of maintaining the moisture level we sometimes use ordinary plastic bags that we inflate with a balloon inflater and close with a band such cheeses are the Brie and Blue the results are also fine. Thanks again for the managing people and thanks a lot for all the contributers and mailers. Ziad Jaber ( Beirut- Lebanon) Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:52:38 -0600 > From: "Elizabeth Cameron" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: > Message-ID: <001401c71feb$b4c232f0$1cf58d41 at POOTER> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is > encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of > vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum > sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is > good for the cheese. > > Happy Christmas! > Elizabeth > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061214/5281e5c3/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:35:43 -0600 > From: Jack Schmidling > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <4582342F.4030208 at mc.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Elizabeth Cameron wrote: > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you > > (anybody) like the idea of vacuum packing the cheese instead of > > waxing it, with one of those vacuum sealers. It sure is convenient, > > compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is good for the cheese. > > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > js > > > -- > PHOTO OF THE WEEK: http://schmidling.com/pow.htm > Astronomy, Beer, Cheese, Fiber,Gems, Sausage,Silver http://schmidling.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 05:30:09 -0600 > From: "ggilks" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <005d01c7203c$64d892b0$0200a8c0 at yourm5d4u9r2uv> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > We have Jersey cows and I make cheese from raw milk all the time. Also cream > cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc,etc. It is wonderful. Happy > Holidays Ina > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Elizabeth Cameron > To: cheese at hbd.org > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:52 PM > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > > > Thanks for the comments and advice on making cheese from raw milk. It is > encouraging. I hope to try this in the spring when there is more milk. > Another thing I was wondering about is whether you (anybody) like the idea of > vacuum packing the cheese instead of waxing it, with one of those vacuum > sealers. It sure is convenient, compared with waxing, but I wonder if it is > good for the cheese. > > Happy Christmas! > Elizabeth > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://hbd.org/pipermail/cheese/attachments/20061215/f869df0c/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:58:13 -0500 > From: "Calvin Gadbury" > Subject: Re: [Cheese] Raw cheese & Vacuum packing > To: "The Cheese Makers' Digest" > Message-ID: <014801c72059$743a3b60$d16c94ce at youro0kwkw9jwc> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Jack Wrote: > > > I think the answer is no unless the cheese is fully ripened and then > > what is the point... might as well eat it. > > > > It will not ripen properly in a vacuum. > > > > js > > > > > > > Jack and All Others, > > Do you have any experience with film wrappings Kosikowski mentions in > Chapter 35 (Packaging )of his book. > > He mentions Parakote Wrappers;? > Cello-Cello-Parakote Lamination? > > Cryovac? > > Calvin > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Cheese mailing list > Cheese at hbd.org > http://hbd.org/mailman/listinfo/cheese > > > End of Cheese Digest, Vol 14, Issue 11 > ************************************** > >