HOMEBREW Digest #1524 Mon 12 September 1994

Digest #1523 Digest #1525

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  "Nutty Ale" ("Jim Robinson")
  Hop Debate-  How Dry I Am/ LEAF hops,blowoff / Peat and Smoking (COYOTE)
  lazy brewers/request for homebrew clubs and shops (MHANSEN)
  drying hops (Alan P Van Dyke)
  Errors in Zymurgy? (Kelly Jones)
  Re. Worthless posts (Chris Cooper)
  worthless posts from lazy brewers (WKODAMA)
  Blackberry Weizenbock Recipe/Coffee Porter Recipe/ Pumpkin Ale Question (Timothy Staiano)
  Responses to SG question (Bill Sutton)
  re: insulating brewpots and electric stoves (Leo Vitt)
  drying hops (Andrew J Donohue)
  Re- AutoSparger(TM) ("Charles Webster")
  Auto Sparger... (Jack Schmidling)
  Autosparger Revisited (John Dodson)
  Immersion Chiller; Spent Grains (DATADUMP)
  Help with carbonation and head retention (EKTSR)
  Re: Holiday Beers ("Joseph E. Santos")
  BREW (Pohlman Bryan CDT)
  Rice, er, things (Pierre Jelenc)
   (Eric Hall)
  Silly Posts, Steve Turner (Guenther Trageser)
  Dealing with high ambient temperatures (Lenny Garfinkel)
  Want to Cry.... (W. Mark Witherspoon)
  looking for cider advice ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  "Worthless posts...." ("geo")
  re: yeast popsicles/fruit/frozen wort ("geo")
  Re: Lazy posts (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  re:Delphunk (que?) ("geo")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 11:34:48 PST From: "Jim Robinson" <Jim_Robinson at ccmailsmtp.ast.com> Subject: "Nutty Ale" Yes Bruce Stevens, so as not to be confused with a "worthless post from a lazy brewer" I checked TCJOHB and asked all my brewing buddies, so having gone through the prerequisite fire drill I have a question for the collective HBD knowledge. I just kegged a Belgian style ale and had a little taste. I was surprised to find that the beer tasted, well, uh... kinda "nutty?". It had a mild sherry type of taste. Being a rather strong ale, it also had an alcohol nose. I didn't find the flavor to be unpleasant, although it really doesn't taste like beer. For all you beer judge/sleuth types here is the grain bill: For 5 gallons. 10 lbs Munton & Fison English pale malt 2 lbs Munton & Fison German Munich 1/2 lbs M & F carapils 1/2 lbs M & F crystal I used Wyeast London Ale yeast. Mashed 90 minutes at 152 degrees. Sparged at 170 degrees. I know that somebody will suggest that the TASTER is probably nutty, not the beer, but I really would like to figure this out. TIA Jim Robinson Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 12:45:02 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Hop Debate- How Dry I Am/ LEAF hops,blowoff / Peat and Smoking Mark stevens at stsci.edu talked about, The hop debate. or...How to cure the curing problem! >In HBD 1519, John (the Coyote) Wyllie said this was not the best idea because the three things that damage hops are oxygen, light, and heat. >I hope this didn't settle the issue for folks, because I don't think John is 100% correct, and Richard's idea seems to have a lot of merit. * What, you question the words of the Oracle! Oh wait, that's not me! Honestly, I hope noone ever takes what I say as law! I get all my info from ACME catalogs, and they are riddled with editing errors! >In Mark Garetz's book ... spread on screens... heat ... 140 degrees F ...water content drops... <from> 80% to about 8%. ...light bulb in a vented box ... close to that temperature range. ...airflow...to carry away the moisture and John's concern about oxygen is not right for the drying phase. The concern about light also seems wrong. We worry about ultraviolet light (FLUORESCENT bulbs) damaging iso-alpha-compounds in a finished beer, but I'm not sure it's much of a concern in the drying phase---especially given that Richard is talking about an INCANDESCENT bulb, which does not produce light of the same spectra as a fluorescent bulb. Similarly, given that commercial practice is to dry at 140 degrees, and that heat is known to promote drying, a slight heat during the drying stage seems completely appropriate. *Ok. Concerns noted. Problems with my theories, noted. Be aware, light IS a problem. An incandescent bulb may not have the SAME spectrum as a flourescent, or sunshine, there there is some overlap (don't have a physics text handy, and if I go to the basment to get it I'll start playing with my fermenting beers!) Light WILL damage hops. If you don't believe me, take some out of your freezer, and sit them under anykind of light for a week, or a few months. Result? Brown hops. not good. Oxygen will oxidize lupulin glands. They turn from a nice bright yellow to a dingy orange. The smell changes from fresh bitter essence to bad cheese. I admit, I don't know how quickly that can happen during drying, but my thrust is to minimize the opportunity. Get 'em dried, get em frozen. Brew with them, be happy and hoppy all at the same time! Drying is necessary for storage, so it's the lesser of two evils. BUT that's why I was trying to find out if it is in anyway NECESSARY, or can one brew directly with fresh picked, green, water filled hop cones!? Still no answer to convince me. (FWIW: My beer fridge had a light bulb which did not go off when the door closed (in case anyone ever wondered!) and I had a beer go skunky from it.) I haven't seen what M.Garetz has to say about it, but I'm glad someone has and is willing to share it with us. Beach and other sources also state that hops are heated to dry them. BUT...they are heated with warm air moving past the hops, not radiant heat from light bulbs. NOW...if you were to construct a dryer with a heating area, and push that warm air onto the hops w/o the light itself hitting the hops...I'd be on your side! Another option is a hair dryer, or small portable heater. Some simple and cheap heaters have thermostats built in which switch them on and off. That is a good thing! Beach describes an elaborate dryer made from an old stylist shop's hair dryer (the kind Lucy sits under and gossips w/the ladies) It depends on where you are. Our desert climate here in Utah makes for quick drying in two days just sitting on a screen in the dark of my garage or shed. Granted, it creeps up to the nineties in there, and we have VERY low humidity. Take home lesson: Minimize the factors which will reduce the essentail essences of hops qualities. Dry gently, quickly, and brew often! *** Curt <css2 at oas.psu.edu> sed something about his airlock/blowoff ...attach tube onto airlock...as a blowoff... * It's one of my regulars. I do have a 1" blowoff also. But use both. "I would not recommend this idea if you use leaf hops; " ------------- Aaaargh! There it is again! You don't use the LEAVES from hops, but the flowers, cones, or as terminology that is acceptable WHOLE hops. Not leaf. Flake is also an semi-acceptable term, but indicates rough handling! Pellets can much things up even more, at least as much! Usually WHOLE hops or pressed (not pelletized) are, or easily can be, left behind in the kettle. Ye- 'ol copper (or stainless) scrubbie does the trick just fine! Fruits are another potential disaster area for airlocks/blowoff. Just ask the peach users of recent discovery! Be warned- even adding fruit to a secondary that has pretty well subsided can instigate a renewed SPLURGE of activity (technical term, look it up in a dictionary!). Advice? Nah, that's not what the digest it for. BS-ing stroking egos, THAT's what the digest is for! But here's some free advice ANYWAY- leave a lot of headspace if you are adding fruit, and plan on it floating to the top for quite a while. I've even gone from a glass carboy to a bucket secondary (yes- PLASTIC!) to add fruit. Makes it easier to get into the fermenter, easiery to get out, and less likely to OVERGLOODGE an airlock. *** Peat Wood: Maybe I just had a brain fart. I thought I read that somewhere and hung onto it. Perhaps it was the M.Jackson's beerhunter segment on Smoked Beers, coming from wood fires being used to dry malt, and smoke them all at once. I too checked my dictionary, and also found no refernce to peat wood. Maybe it was Teak. So call me an idiot! People have been known to! I also looked up Peck, cuz it wa there and caught my eye: Peck1 (pek) n. Dry Measure = 8 quarts or one-quarter of a bushel. A lot, a peck of trouble. Peck2 v. 1. to strike or nip or pick up with the beak. 2. to make (a hole) with the beak. 3. <my favorite> to kiss lighlty and hastily. PECK n. 1 a stroke or nip made with the beak. 2. a light hasty kiss. Peck'er <I'll skip that!> BUT: I will stand by my guns that a charcoal fire is better for smoking fish or grains than a propane BBQ. That's not to say you CAN'T do it with propane, or that the results would be crap, but just that it's BETTER with the real thing! And I ain't talkin' Coca Cola Jack! \-/-\ John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu \-/-\ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 13:52:04 -0600 From: MHANSEN at ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu Subject: lazy brewers/request for homebrew clubs and shops Here comes flame # 23,912: Let me paraphrase Bruce P. Stevens: "Bitch, moan, bitch, moan...lazy worthless newbies...bitch,moan. I need some judges." That's awfully ballsy to make a statement like that and then ask the HBD for help. If I was in Maine in November and I was a certified judge (which I hope to be some day), I certainly would not be a judge for your competition. Moreover I hope people boycott your competition as a show for how unpopular that statement was. I for one am grateful for all the help I received from the HBD when I started this hobby a year ago. Don't computers made for gods have a page down key? I recently moved to the Iowa City/Cedar Rapids, Iowa area and am looking for homebrew shops and homebrew clubs around here. Can someone point me in the right direction. Private E-mail is fine as I wouldn't want to clutter up Bruce's E-mail with worthless drivel. TIA and brew on my friends, Mike (MHANSEN at CTDMC.PMEH.UIOWA.EDU) Return to table of contents
Date: Friday, 9 September 94 14:00:20 CST From: Alan P Van Dyke <llapv at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu> Subject: drying hops Howdy, all, Now, I'll admit right up front that I've never dried a hop in my life (even though I am lookin' forward to it about a year from now), but why is everyone worried about oxygen, heat, & light exposure to the hops during drying when the little fellas have been sitting outside in the full sun all summer long? Happy brewing, Alan of Austin (lazy but not worthless) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 13:02:46 -0600 From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones) Subject: Errors in Zymurgy? Did someone bring up the subject of errors in Zymurgy? I was excited when I read in the latest issue that a new brewery, the Bandon Brewing Company, would be opening up right here in Salt Lake City, Utah. Unfortunately, no one around here had ever heard of it. Well, after a couple long distance phone calls to Zymurgy and the AOB, I was finally able to learn that the Bandon Brewing Company would not be opening in Salt Lake City, but instead had chosen Bandon, Oregon (or was it Washington?) as the site for their new brewery. Go figure. Kelly Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 15:50:14 EDT From: ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com (Chris Cooper) Subject: Re. Worthless posts Consider this yet another Flame Mr. BREWS Prez ! As a relative newbie homebrewer thanks to all how have answered the simple and the complex questions posted here, the information has helped make this a great hobby for myself and many others ! ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com IBMMAIL (99880) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 15:58:02 -0400 From: WKODAMA at aba.com Subject: worthless posts from lazy brewers Having read MALT PREZ's (brews at delphi.com) worthwhile post, I knew he was in for flames. So I thought I would take a look through some back issues of HBD to see if he had in fact been blessing the digest with his own worthwhile posts (since so many other brewers who take the time to post are "lazy"), and therefore might be undeserving of the heat. I mean, let's take a deep breath and pause before we flame, right? I looked the most recent 320 or so digests. MALT PREZ posted *once* (good thing he's not lazy). I've taken the liberty to recapture some of the more worthwhile highlights: > THE EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD WITH THEM IS VERY GOOD AND THE > LADIES LOVE THE LIGHT REFRESHING FLAVOR AND AROMA, (snip) > LOCK IT UP OR YOUR FEMALE FRIENDS WILL SCARF IT ALL ON YOU. (snip) > BUT THE RESPONSE OF THE BABES IS THE REAL PRIZE. Oooooh, Love God! At least in his latest worthwhile post he got off his lazy butt and took the caps lock off. Wesman 9-Sep-94 15:51 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 16:08:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Timothy Staiano <tstaiano at ultrix.ramapo.edu> Subject: Blackberry Weizenbock Recipe/Coffee Porter Recipe/ Pumpkin Ale Question Greetings and salutations to all! I would first like to thank all who responded to my post in #1405 re:Cranberry Wheat recipe. Well I guess I was a little out of season as I couldn't find any cranberries (not even frozen). Insteat I decided upon blackberries, frozen blackberries from my local Grand Union. The recipe I came up with (thanks to SUDS 3.0 -no affiliation, no flames please!) is as follows: 0.28# 90L Crystal 3# Light DME 6.6# can Ireks 100% Wheat syrup 1oz 4.1% Hallertauer (Boil) 0.5oz 3.8% Mt. Hood (Finish) 5# Frozen Blackberries Wyeast 3068 Wheinstephen Wheat w/1.020 starter Steeped grains to 190degF, added extracts and boiled a la Papazian. Added Mt. Hood and 36oz blackberries last 5min. Cooled and brought up to total volume of 5.25 gallons. Saved 32oz wort (and 10ml yeast slurry) for krausen. Pitched at 76degF. Primary fermentation: 5 days at 68-70degF. Racked to secondary and added 3lb frozen blackberries, 7 days at 68-70degF. 16 days at 56-60degF. O.G.: 1.068 F.G.: 1.017 It's been in the bottle for about 5 months now and IMOH it's fantastic. At first the sourness of the berries was too prominent but it has mellowed nicely. Next of my wacky recipies is something I like to call Kenyan Koffee Porter. It is a robust porter with 1/2lb Kenyan coffee beans steeped until almost boil. 1# Black Patent 3.3# John Bull Unhopped Dk. LME 3# Lt. DME 0.75oz 4.2% Tettnanger (finish) 0.5oz 12.4% Chinook (boil) 1/2# Kenyan coffee beans Wyeast ESB liquid w/1.040 starter (IMHO it's better than 1.020) Crushed beans and black patent. Removed black patent at 180degF and coffee at 200degF. Proceed through with rest. Pitched at 68degF. Primary for 4 days at 70degF. Racked to secondary and its been a week so far with signs of minimal (1 bubble/3-5min) fermentation. It tasted pretty good at racking time, maybe 1/4lb too much black patent but hey, it seem darn drinkable. Now that I've provided some info, I'd like to receive some. I want to brew a pumpkin ale to help celebrate the fall harvest season. Anyone have any all extract, extract/speciality recipies they would like to share. Private e-mail sounds good to me. TIA Have a hoppy! Tim Staiano (tstaiano at ramapo.ultrix.edu) p.s. I'm going to the Sugarbush Brewers Festival next weekend, will post about it. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 16:20:50 EDT From: Bill Sutton <wrs at hpuerca.atl.hp.com> Subject: Responses to SG question The general consensus was that losing a half gallon would easily drop the SG as experienced. For your enlightenment, I will post a couple of the calculations. Another common comment was a reminder to be sure I took the sample from a well-mixed wort, not just the lighter stuff at the top. I have taken the liberty of editing this out, as it was present in nearly all responses. FWIW, I mixed my wort so well that I had 2 inches of hops in the bottom of the sample jar ... Thanks for all your help! ******************************************************************** Contributed S.G. from ingredients = X (unknown). Measured S.G. of 5 gallons (3 gallons water, 2 gallons wort) = 1.044. Since loss was 20% (25% of result), then you would get X= 1 + (44*1.25)/1000 = 1.055 So, I guess maybe your original guess of 1.058 isn't too bad. Also, depending on how you crushed your crystal and how it was steeped, you might get less than optimum yield from it. Hard to say. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org ****************************************************************** In HBD1517 you asked about SG formulas: I've used the formula (I've posted this to HBD before) [#DME + 0.8#LME + 0.7#GRAINS]*0.042 O.G. = 1.000 + ---------------------------------- gallons where # means pounds. This formula uses 1.042 for a pound of DME (dry malt extract) in a gallon of water, about 1.034 for LME (liquid malt extract), and about 1.029 for speciality grains. I'm not sure where I've seen the 1.042 figure (probably Charlie P.'s book) and maybe a Zymurgy issue. The 0.8 factor represents an approximate average, and you'll find a variation probably between 0.75 and 0.85 depending on the manufacturer of the LME. The 0.7 factor is dependent on the grains, their crush, and your sparging (straining) technique. On the other hand, I've compared the above formula to measured O.G. values for over a dozen extract batches and have had an average error of about 1 point (0.1%), and a maximum of 4 points, on O.G.'s ranging from 1.026 to 1.057. According to the formula above, you should have gotten 1.000 + (0.8*6.9 + 0.7*0.5)*0.042/5 = 1.049. My conjecture is that the stuff that you didn't siphon (you mentioned you lost some stuff due to siphon problems) caused the discrepancy. For example if you left one quart of your concentrated wort in the kettle your expected gravity after topping off to 5 gallons would be only 1.000 + 2.0*.049/2.25 = 1.044 which is close to your measurement. Here the 2.0 is the amount of concentrated wort that you siphoned and the 2.25 is the assumed total amount of concentrated wort. Bill Szymczak bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil ******************************************************************** Rsponding to your query in the HBD, when you lost 0.5 gallons of liquid you also lost one-fifth ( 0.5/2.5 ) of your fermentables. If you were to figure on 55 points in five gallons, then (1/5)*55 or 11 points were left in the boiling vessel. That makes 55-11=44 or an OG of 1.044. This points up one of the rarly mentioned shortcomings of doing partial boils, if you lose fluid there is a proporionatly greater fermentable loss. On the other hand you probably didn't have three pots boiling away on you stove Monday afternoon either:-) Steve Waite Microwave Instruments Division Hewlett-Packard ***************************************************************** Bill Sutton So many songs, wrs at hpuerca.atl.hp.com So little beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 15:18:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Leo Vitt <vitt at rchland.VNET.IBM.COM> Subject: re: insulating brewpots and electric stoves Todd Swanson <BCHM014 at UNLVM.UNL.EDU> said >I have done 6.5 gallon boils >on my electric stove using a 33qt enamel on steel brewpot. The pot sits on >2 burners and I use both of them. It takes about 30 min. to get the boil going >and I have to keep the pot covered or mostly covered. I have also used two burners on my electric stove. However, I accomplish this by a different means. I use two smaller stainless kettles. One is 20 quarts and the second is 15.5 quarts. I arrived at this because I was using the 20 quart kettle for partial boils (boil all the extract with part of the water) for partial mashes. Then I was able to get the second kettle much cheaper than investing in a 40 quart stainless kettle when I wanted to start all grain brewing. I see my only disadvantage is I need to chill the two kettles seperately. I chill one, then the other with a emersion chiller. My other solution is an outdoor burner with a 15.5 gal keg as a kettle, allowing 10 gal batches. The season will have a great deal to do with which approach I decide to use. - Leo (vitt at rchland.ibm.com) Leo Vitt,416741 (vitt at rchland) department 47x IBM Rochester, Minnesota (507)253-6903 t/l 553-6903 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 16:56:09 EDT From: andy2 at hogpa.ho.att.com (Andrew J Donohue) Subject: drying hops I don't claim to be an expert but this is my second harvest and this method has worked well. I simply take a few window screens and prop them up on boxes in the attic. I then spread the hops 1 (one) cone thick on the screens. My attic here in NJ is around 105F on a sunny day in Sept. I'm not very anal (my wife thinks I am) so when the hops seem dry I pack them in freezer bags and freeze them. Months later they are fresher than locally purchased hops (my HB supply store doesn't store their hops well). Andy andy2 at hogpe.ho.att.com PS Maybe if we ignore certain wining a##holes they will go away! Return to table of contents
Date: 9 Sep 1994 08:29:03 -0800 From: "Charles Webster" <Charles_Webster at macmail.lbl.gov> Subject: Re- AutoSparger(TM) Subject: Time:8:28 AM OFFICE MEMO Re: AutoSparger(TM) Date:9/9/94 A couple of HBDs ago someone asked about Bob Jones' AutoSparger(TM). Here is the text of his original post (with his permission) > Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:01:26 +0900 From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob > Jones) Subject: Autosparge details > > I have had several requests for more detailed info on the autosparge > gadget I described in a recent post. Here is another amusing ascii > graphic.... the information superhighway needs some improvements! > > > > Sparge > H2O --------- > input ------ | > | | > | | > | | Side view Top view > | | > | | > | | > | | ..[ ].. > | | . | . > | |___ . | . > [ ]-----------(float) . | . ring > ----- . | . with > float . | . holes > valve . ( ) . > . . > ....... > > I use a float valve from Graingers, part number 2X524, $13.70. It > doesn't come with a float. I got a SS float surplus at a local junk > store. The entire assembly is adjustable in heigth, which allows me to > place the ring right down about an inch above the mash bed. I consructed > it all out of 1/2 rigid copper and 1/2" flex copper for the ring. > > Better brewing through hi-tech, > > Cheers, > > > > Bob Jones bjones at novax.llnl.gov <Chas> CLWebster at lbl.gov We will drink no beer before it's time. (And I think it's time now.) Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 18:51 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Auto Sparger... >From: john.dodson at cantina.com (John Dodson) >Subject: Automatic Sparger Summary >Several weeks ago I posted a query looking for information on an 'automatic' sparge ring (described as a copper ring with holes drilled in the bottom and a float valve mounted in the middle, used for 'automatically' controlling sparge water flow to a grain bed). >I had quite a few requests on forwarding any information I might obtain as a result of the post. I am sorry to inform all that were interested, that I did not recieve any information... either on a design or where one might buy such a device. :-( (Could be a market for such a device?.. how about it Jack? ... EasyAutomaticSpargeRing(tm)?) ... I didn't respond because of the necessarily obvious commercial nature of whatever response I could make. The EASYSPARGER (tm) does exist but as usual, I have taken the shortest and simplest route to effect the result. First of all, the ring with holes in it is totally unnecessary. Well, let's say it is about as unnecessary as whirly gig sparger made by that other supplier. As long as one maintains the liquid above the level of the grain, it makes not the slightest difference how or where the water enters. The end of a hose, dribbling into the tun is more than adequate. Secondly, I have little inclination to heat up vast quantities of sparge water only to use it at the rate of a controlled leak. So my approach is to continuously heat a small quantity of water only when and as needed. This being a stove top device, connected to the water tap, the flow rate is really determined by the rate at which a kitchen stove can heat water. The float valve is really not required because all one needs to do is adjust the out-flow from the mash tun to the inflow from the EASYSPARGER. To de-commercial this, you can make your own easy sparger by installing two barb fittings on a 6 qt kettle. One goes to a hose fitted with a fawcet adapter and the other goes to a short length of high temp hose to dribble over the mash tun. The input from the tap should be above the output level. Send email for a flyer on the upper-case version. js Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 09:12:00 -0700 From: john.dodson at cantina.com (John Dodson) Subject: Autosparger Revisited Thanks to all who sent 'Automatic Sparger' replies! It has restored my faith in electronic media! <g> For those that were interested, here is a repost of Bob Jones sparger, a.k.a. 'Uncle Bob's Automatic Sparger': - ------------ Posting 12: Extracted from file: 1452 (HBD number) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 10:01:26 +0900 From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones) Subject: Autosparge details I have had several requests for more detailed info on the autosparge gadget I described in a recent post. Here is another amusing ascii graphic.... the information superhighway needs some improvements! Sparge H2O --------- input ------ | | | | | | | Side view Top view | | | | | | | | ..[ ].. | | . | . | |___ . | . [ ]-----------(float) . | . ring ----- . | . with float . | . holes valve . ( ) . . . ....... I use a float valve from Graingers, part number 2X524, $13.70. It doesn't come with a float. I got a SS float surplus at a local junk store. The entire assembly is adjustable in heigth, which allows me to place the ring right down about an inch above the mash bed. I consructed it all out of 1/2 rigid copper and 1/2" flex copper for the ring. [Also, Jeremy Bergsman astutely points out that the ring portion is really unnecessary (no offense Uncle Bob!<g>) as water is usually an inch above the grain bed and any flow of water that does not disturb the grain bed will work just as well.] Thanks again for responding! * OLX 2.1 TD * Internet: sysop at cantina.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 08:05:18 EDT From: DATADUMP at aol.com Subject: Immersion Chiller; Spent Grains Okay HBDers. I have followed the threads about immersion wort chillers and decided I had to have one. Went to Home Depot and spent $28 on a 50' roll of 3/8" OD soft refrigeration copper tubing. Bought 1' of 3/8" ID flexible tubing, a female hose connector with a 3/8" OD nipple, and a couple of hose clamps. Now to coil it so it will fit my brew pot. As I ambled about the house I came upon a lone cornelius keg. Hmmmm. I Placed the C-keg in the brew pot . . . plenty of room for tubing also. :D I simply unrolled the tubing (the hallway was long enough) and, laying the C-keg on the floor, began rolling the tubing onto it. Worked great! No kinks and an even coil to immerse in my wort. Using the nifty spring type bending tool I formed the ends and attached my other components. Test Time! Used water at boiling (212F) and had at it. The temp dropped to less than 110F in less than 5 minutes!! I debated on which way to flow the water through . . . from top to bottom OR bottom to top. I opted for top to bottom. (Any comments on which is more efficient?) **** ::::::grind:::::: :::::::kachunk!::::::: ::::::clank:::::: <--shifting gears What do you do with your spent grains?? My friend and fellow brewer is a frugal kind of guy - He used the grains to make some bread (his wife said he looked like the Swedish Chef from the Muppets when he was doing this)! Really turned out great. He will be writing up his recipe and it will be available for publication later. Anybody else have any neat ideas to recycle the grains? Happy Brewing!! Gordon Cain THE-BREW BBS Orlando, Fl. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 09:21:30 EDT From: EKTSR at aol.com Subject: Help with carbonation and head retention Seems I've worked my way into a maze and need help.... What is the difference between undercarbonation and poor head retention?? My last 4-5 batchs of extract based ales have all suffered from what I am guessing is poor head retention--pour out of bottle into clean glass, little head formation, any that does form disappears almost immediately. But the beer does have a slight "bubbly" feel in my mouth. First few batches I used a dish washer to sanitize bottle (WITH RINSE AGENT IN DISHWASHER), so last batch I sanitized bottles w/1/2 hour soak 2 tlbspoon bleach to 5 gallon, hot water rinse. Caps sanitized same way. Last batch suffered same fate. My questions are this: What else might cause poor head retention?? I have heard of adding .5-1 lb wheat malt to help. Also the freshness of the hops ?? How does one judge carbonation and head retention?? I guess my beer is properly carbonated--last batch used 1 cup corn sugar-- but it still doesn't seem to be enough carbonation for me.... Thanks for responses--I'll post summary PS-FWIW, although I thought the post from that gentleman in Maine about newbie questions was pure trash, I can now see a glimmer of truth. I would be helped by having local, live,KNOWLEDGABLE resource to bring this problem to...Still, didn't need his trash here. Almost didn't post because of it. Stan White, psycokitty at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 09:42:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph E. Santos" <jesantos at wpi.edu> Subject: Re: Holiday Beers Cheers, As an amatateur brewer I use the HBD as an invaluable source of information. Not all of it is useful to me but it does give assistance. My question is: With Thanksgiving around the corner, I am considering brewing a cranberry stout. Being a New Englander I have access to a source of whole fresh cranberries. I do not however have any knowledge on how to process them for brewing. Do they need to be crushed or pureed first? Has anybody used them in a recipe? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for allowing me to use this valuable bandwidth for such DRIVEL oh great wise ones! DR J Food for thought: By academic freedom I understand the right to search for truth and to publish and teach what one holds to be true. This right implies also a duty: one must not conceal any part of what one has recognized to be true. It is evident that any restriction of academic freedom acts in such a way as to hamper the dissemination of knowledge among the people and thereby impedes national judgement and action. -Albert Einstein Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 10:16:51 EDT From: x85599i3 at usma14.USMA.EDU (Pohlman Bryan CDT) Subject: BREW What's up. I'm a cadet at West Point and was interested in some brewing information and comversation. Please write back with background info. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 11:07:28 EDT From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu> Subject: Rice, er, things In HBD #1523, Diane Palme says: > First of all, no, I didn't mean to say "hulls" when I said "hauls". The > package that I bought actually said "Rice Hauls" on the side. No brand > label (except for the store) and no ingredient list. The look of the > "hauls" (hulls, whatever) was like straw. Each piece about 1/2" long, > and then split on the long axis. It made me think of the leaves or > stalk of the rice plant rather than a husk of the rice kernel itself. I was puzzled by the word as well. As far as I know, "haul" is not a real word but, from the description, it is obvious that it was "haulm", i.e. straw that was in that bag. Haulm is a collective word, like straw, so should not show up in the plural. Maybe it is a dialect word, or maybe someone at the printing company decided to change the "m" into an "s". (For the linguistically inclined, "haulm" is the English cognate of the French "chaume", which means "thatch".) Pierre Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 15:26:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Hall <ehall at moose.uvm.edu> Subject: subsribe Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Sep 94 22:49:02 EDT From: Guenther Trageser <73672.613 at compuserve.com> Subject: Silly Posts, Steve Turner Steve, I am glad you had fun brewing, breaking your carboy etc. However, do you want advice as to how to not let a carboy slip? Or is it that you are trying to let us in on a secret that glass breaks when you let it drop? It is my understanding that people here expect to discuss experiences and problems they have had with their brewig and try to get some questions answered. By the way, the best way not to break a carboy is not to drop it. If youlove your anecdpotes, have a beer with your friends and a good night out. Please, don't waste this precious resource. Risking to get flamed. Gunther Trageser. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 08:36:19 +0200 (IST) From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il> Subject: Dealing with high ambient temperatures I've been lurking for the past couple of months trying to learn as much as possible before trying my first homebrew. I would not post this question if there were advice available from some other quarter, but I don't know of anyone else in Israel who does homebrew. The problem that I have is the high temperatures here. My apartment is usually in the the 25C-30C (77F-86F) range during the months June-September. Everything that I have read (Papazian, Reese, and the stanford docs) indicates that temperature is very important and 65F-75F is ideal. Papazian does not deal with this at all. Reese (Better Beer and How to Brew It), claims that above 75F you just don't get good results. He suggests a method of cooling the fermentor using wet towels draped over the sides which provide evaporative cooling. I can live with this, but is temperature of the fermentation after bottling also critical? I know that I am not the first to deal with this question. I spent my first 30 years in the states and remember lots of disgusting hot, humid summers. How do you all maintail appropriate fermentation temperatures? Or is it not all that important after all? I'd hate to have to wait for autumn to begin brewing. BTW, if anyone knows of a good homebrew supplier which will mail order to Israel, I'd appreciate an address and phone number. Thanks, Lenny Garfinkel Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 11:35:06 +0500 From: mwithers at hannibal.atl.ge.com (W. Mark Witherspoon) Subject: Want to Cry.... My hops are gone... The *$* at &% bugs have eaten every leaf off of the vines. I tried to get rid of them, but they have chewed everything off except for the vine itself. The vines are trying to put out more leaves, but I am not hopeful since winter is comming on. I don't expect to see any cones this year 8^(. BTW the vines reached 35' in their first year of growth. Mark Witherspoon. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 11:33:52 -0500 From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu> Subject: looking for cider advice As fall arrives and the apple harvest is here, I too am interested in making some cider. I've searched the Cats_meow and there are only a few recipes there. I have some generic questions on which I would like some advice. 1) Does anyone boil or pasteurize the fresh cider? If so, what temps or how long? Do you chill it with a wort chiller if you do use heat? 2) Any chemical methods of pasteurizing the cider? Campden tablets or similar? 3) Choice of yeasts? Ale (which varieties), champagne,wild? 4) Flavor adjuncts? (brown sugar, honey, spices) If you have any tried and true recipes or other advice, please share it. As fall approaches, others may wish this information too, so consider a generalized post if it is appropriate. TIA JEFF M. MICHALSKI michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 19:39:28 CST From: "geo" <WOLFF at albert.uta.edu> Subject: "Worthless posts...." Well, Bruce Stevens stirred up a hornets' nest alright. At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, I have to come out and say that I basically agree with his sentiments, and suspect that many others might, had his message been worded a little less provocatively. All you Protectors of the People out there, please read on before you jump on my case. I've subscribed to the HBD for about a month now, and it's main function, it seems to me, is to provide a forum for informed discussion about beer and brewing. By "informed discussion" I don't mean that we should restrict ourselves to graduate-level biochemistry; only an insufferable prig would take that attitude and it's clear to me that Bruce did NOT say anything of that sort. It's also clear to me that the HBD is not intended to provide absolute beginners (the wortless??) with the information they need to begin brewing. It's the nature of the beast. The HBD consists of a random assortment of tiny bits of information about brewing. Nobody could make any real sense of it without having some prior knowledge and/or experience. What the beginning brewer needs is not the HBD but a book, in which the necessary information is laid out in a clear, logical fashion, that tells him/her how to produce a batch of beer. If any beginners with problems are reading this, please go to the literature (i.e. any HB book) first before posting a question on the HBD. Papazian's New Complete Joy of Home Brewing (pub. Acme, price $11) is probably the most accessible; I've seen it in regular bookstores. Also, bear in mind that your question will be answered by people who have no knowledge of exactly what your set-up is, and who are not themselves infallible. I've read some statements made on the HBD that are just plain wrong, although these are usually caught by someone. But how is the beginner to know? OK, people, I'm ready for the righteous indignation. John Wolff wolff at uta.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 20:54:25 CST From: "geo" <WOLFF at albert.uta.edu> Subject: re: yeast popsicles/fruit/frozen wort Kirk Harralson asks if freezing fruit would sterilise it. (I'm being helpful now, having just supported Bruce Stevens). Freezing DOES NOT sterilise!! Any doctor will tell you that putting ice in your drink in a third-world country is a great way to catch typhus. Wee yeasties have their cell walls ripped by freezing (as I guess Kirk knows, from the title of his post), but this isn't true of many, many bacteria or other dreadful creatures. Ever watched the mold grow inside a freezer that's been switched off and allowed to reach room temperature without even opening the door? Frank (ding.dong at esbbs.com) asks "Why not freeze sterile wort"? From the above, I reckon it's a bad idea because your fridge and freezer are about the most bacterially contaminated places in your house; the only reason this isn't apparent is that the low temperature really slows the buggers down. You're simply increasing the chances of contaminating the outside of the jar, and hence of whatever temporarily open container you pour the starter into at the next stage. I also use the canning method, and have never had a problem with storing the jars at room temperature; this was the whole reason the method was originally invented for foodstuffs (if one of your jars is internally contaminated, it's soon apparent, but wouldn't be were they frozen). I boil up 3 gallons of ME-based lightly hopped wort at OG 1035 - 1040; this provides enough for 36 jars, half-filled, 12 each of half-pint, pint, and quart capacity, and then use the three sizes in sequence to get a good volume of starter from a WYeast pouch or bottle dregs. For me, this is easily a year's supply (especially if the timing's right for carrying yeast from one brew to the next, obviating the need for a starter). Happy brewing John Wolff wolff at uta.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 22:40:27 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Re: Lazy posts Ulick writes > rice hulls are just creating channels and preventing efficient loitering. Usually when I want to loiter efficiently, I use cappuccino. For one thing, it tastes better than rice hulls :-) =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 22:04:11 CST From: "geo" <WOLFF at albert.uta.edu> Subject: re:Delphunk (que?) OK, I'm being really helpful tonight; must have something to do with the steady depletion of my stock that's accompanying this session. Todd McGuiness writes "I know that the temperature of the water/liquor (??) in the lock must be close to the temp of the brew or we will get leakage from the lock into the primary". Wrong. You could have liquid nitrogen or boiling oil in the lock (although either would be difficult to arrange), and as long as the internal and external pressures are the same, there will be no movement of liquid in the lock. 3 things commonly influence the pressure balance: 1. CO2 production in the fermenter 2. Temperature variations. Any T change inside the fermenter will cause a pressure differential. 3. External pressure variations, such as when a front comes through. Todd, if you pitched your wort at 80F (I assume ambient T was considerably less), then cooling during the lag probably was responsible for sucking air and lock liquid in (I assume this is what you mean when you say leaking). Wondering how it'll turn out? Taste it and see. Any damage has probably been done by now, although some types of bacteria also have a long lag time, i.e. the new beer is good, but it doesn't keep well. ESB can be consumed pretty quickly if you barrel/keg it, trust me, I'm English. Is pitching at 80F such a good idea? I used to do this, but got fed up with drinking phenol and esters that had a faint taste of hops. Since recently getting a temperature controller and second fridge, I've also realised just how exothermic primary fermentation is. My last brew was 10F above the 68F ambient at high krausen (despite having been pitched at about 65F), not bad for a little 3 gallon bucket with a large surface area/volume ratio, but not good for flavour. Admittedly this was a strong ale (OG 1085), but next time I'll crank the fridge down to about 55F during primary fermentation with an ale yeast (this one was the stuff labelled only "Nottingham Ale Yeast, made in Canada". Anyone else tried monitoring ferment T while using this yeast?). Cheers, John Wolff wolff at uta.edu "His real wife, his houri, his paramour was everywhere waiting, genie- like, in a bottle. The hymeneal gouging-off of the bottle-top, the kiss of the brown bitter yeasty flow, the euphoria far beyond the release of detumescence." - Anthony Burgess Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1524, 09/12/94