HOMEBREW Digest #1525 Tue 13 September 1994

Digest #1524 Digest #1526


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  HBD as a part of the Internet (David Draper)
  Fresh Hops/Hop Drying (Reanimator)
  lazy post's/fruit additions (Dodger Posey)
  Re: Auto Sparger... (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Alternatives to bottling (GONTAREK)
  Drying hops... an easy solution ("Pamela J. Day 7560")
  starch test/hopdry/archive/geometry (RONALD DWELLE)
  Erlenmeyer flasks, etc. (KWH)
  I'm worthless! (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV>
  Pumpkin Ale (Mark A. Stevens)
  Drying Hops and Other Brewing Heating Uses (John DeCarlo              )
  Hop drying (Mark A. Stevens)
  good price for malt extract,  cider (uswlsrap)
  cider, Scotland (HOMEBRE973)
  carboy breaks ("Anton Verhulst")
  Cranberry beers (Mark A. Stevens)
  Re: Sources of Small Pumps? (Graves Peter)
  posting clarification (BREWS)
  Re: A few bits (Jim Busch)
  Useless Drivel? (Kelly Jones)
  need mead (Jay Weissler)
  Re: AutoSparger/Oxygen Barrier Bag Sources (Arthur McGregor 614-0205)
  1994 Dixie Cup Update .. Fabulous Prize for BOS Winner (Sean Lamb)
  Re: Hop Utilization and Forced Ventilation (Bill Szymczak)
  newbie malt question (Ken Lierman)
  Cider Beer? (braddw)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 18:06:09 +1000 (EST) From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au> Subject: HBD as a part of the Internet Dear Friends, the brouhaha started by the "worthless post" post has taken up a lot of space, so I'll be brief. I think what Bruce is getting hammered for is his choice of words, and I think he should--*for his choice of words*. Ulick and John ("Trust me, I'm English") Wolff have both pointed out that it would not be bad for the HBD if new readers read the thing for awhile, and became familiar in at least a cursory way with some of the more common brew books, before posting something. This is one of the first tenets of basic Netiquette. If one filters out the invective from Bruce's post, I think this is the basic message, and one that I too agree with. BUT! I was mightily pissed off after reading Bruce's post, just like a lot of readers were. The digest was almost completely responsible for major improvements in *my* understanding of brewing, because I did not have access to the basic info and brewed "in a vacuum" for my first 18 months before finding the HBD. I'm sure we have all noticed that, as the years have passed, the net has become a weirder and more hostile place. I submit that it is too much to ask for the Digest to be immune to this, much as we would all prefer it to be so. So although I basically agree with the underlying sentiment of Bruce's post, he has no business increasing the weirdness and hostility of the net, and the Digest. Next time: beer...I promise. Cheers, Dave in Sydney - -- "Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle ****************************************************************************** David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428 ....I'm not from here, I just live here.... Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 18:02:22 +0930 (CST) From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Reanimator) Subject: Fresh Hops/Hop Drying A couple of notes on drying hops etc: Light damage: incandescent light will definitely still make hops go skunky. source: a friend of mine whose beer is routinely skunky due to the fact that against my advice he persists in using a desk lamp to keep his fermenter warm. O2 damage: Probably will not be all that great but if you really wanted to avoid it you could buy a tank of nitrogen (N2), pass it through a heating coil to get it nice 'n' toasty warm and have it blow gently through a tube with the hops in it. N2 is pretty cheap. I agree with the Coyote though in that I'm not yet convinced that there's any reason not to use fresh, turbid hop flowers. Spent grains: I just spread them outside for the birdies to munch. Actually I spread them outside a friend of mine's window so the little darlings will come and chirp and wake him up in the morning. Ain't I a stinker :) Beerserk, Zoz - -- zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au http://www.cs.adelaide.edu.au/~zoz/ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 01:58:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Dodger Posey <dodger at quack.kfu.com> Subject: lazy post's/fruit additions just fuel for the fire: besides TCJOHB , my info source is this digest. so to me, specific beginner questions are welcome here, but not you gotta admit, there are some pretty darn basic questions posted here that if one might do more than drink a few of a buddy's homebrew, they might actually find the answer. I'm no expert but my beer tastes good. For the fellow who wondered when to add fruit... I added the strained juice of frozen raspberries to the secondary, then racked on top. No boiling, sterilizing, worrying. I'm like that. Tomorrow morn, i make scotch ale. (dodger sleeps well) What did George Washington say before crossing the Deleware? "Everybody get in the boat" :{} ps the raspberry beer (wheat base) turned out (still is) excellent. aahh. - --------------Dodger Posey-----dodger at quack.kfu.com------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 10:26:19 +0000 From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167) Subject: Re: Auto Sparger... In HBD 1524, arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) wrote: > > The EASYSPARGER (tm) does exist but as usual, I have taken the shortest > and simplest route to effect the result. > > First of all, the ring with holes in it is totally unnecessary. Well, > let's say it is about as unnecessary as whirly gig sparger made by that > other supplier. As long as one maintains the liquid above the level of > the grain, it makes not the slightest difference how or where the water > enters. The end of a hose, dribbling into the tun is more than adequate. Hi Jack, your posting reminded me of the "discussion" that you and I (with one or two others) had on r.c.b some time back about the "whirly gig" sparger. The conclusion of the debate, on my part, was that I agreed that your methods where quite adequate but that I would continue with my "whirly gig" as it suited my purpose. As an update to that discussion, I now feel that my "whirly gig" is pretty essential for the following reasons. Having found a supplier of pre-crushed malt of a higher crush quality and having replaced my "twin-bin" mash-tun with a single-bin/copper-manifold setup, I have found that my mash process has changed drastically. I use, what seems to be, the British method of completely draining the grain bed before sparging. I say this is a British method as it would appear that this is frowned upon by many US brewers but I know that many commercial British breweries do this unless there is liklihood of a set mash. As the bed is completely drained, I must then apply the sparge liquor in a gentle fashion, initially, in order to disturb the grain bed as little as possible. Your argument would be that once the level of sparge liquor had built up above the grain bed, I could then be less careful about the way that further sparge liquor was applied due to the cushioning effect of the covering layer of liquor. Also, the fact that the layer of liquor does cover the whole of the bed, ensuring that the complete area of the bed is being "rinsed", it doesn't matter where the liquor is being applied - a single point of entry such as a tube is as good as an even spray from a "whirly gig". Slight problem! As a result of the better quality of crush and the impossibility of blocking the slots in my copper manifold, the rate of permeation of the sparge liquor through my grain bed is such that it is virtually impossible to build up any covering layer of liquor above my grain bed - as fast as I apply it, it soaks through. As a result, a gentle, even application of the sparge liquor is absolutely essential - if I used a single tube, I would need to wave it about over the grain in order to rinse the whole area and to prevent it breaking up the grain bed. If I did not have a "whirly gig", I would most likely make a stationary ring with holes or use what many UK brewers use - a brass watering-can rose suspended in the centre of the mash-tun. In saying that, however, it is likely that I would even try to make my own design of "whirly gig" - I already knew that commercial breweries use giant "whirly gigs" and was trying to work out how I could make a small version before I found the one I currently own in my local HB shop. On a recent visit to a small independent brewery, I found that their "whirly gig" was six foot long and made out of standard 1 inch copper pipe with end-caps and compression fittings. Unless I can find a better method of gently applying an even flow of sparge liquor to my drained grain bed, I must adopt the opinion that my "whirly gig" is a neccessity rather than a novelty. And just a point for those who may question my methods of draining the mash completely and the obvious speed that my sparge liquor runs through it... Using this method, I achieve a run-off/sparge time of 45-60 minutes and a mash efficiency of between 88%-92% (31 - 33 pts). > Secondly, I have little inclination to heat up vast quantities of sparge > water only to use it at the rate of a controlled leak. Doesn't seem to be much of a problem to me - I use a 5.5 Imp. gallon Electrim bin which has an electric element and a thermostat which keeps the temp. within 1 deg. C either way of what I set it to. Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 8:09:18 -0400 (EDT) From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV Subject: Alternatives to bottling Greetings to you all! Let me begin by saying what a valuable resource the HBD has been to me over the past few years. Despite the occasional rantings by obnixious brewers, this forum has been a terrific asset to me and my brewing from day 1, and has been with me all the way from my first brew (dumping a can of malt extract into a bucket with three pounds of domino sugar) up to my present level of skilled all-grain brewing. Thank you all. Okay, enough of the niceties. I do not have the money or space for a corny keg setup, and I have heard many problems from those who own party pigs and the mini-keg system. I recently saw what looked to be a 3 gallon plastic barrel from Edme at a nearby store...the store owner's wife couldn't give me any further information about it. Is this the Edme pressure barrel? Does anyone out there have one or know how it works? I am looking for a cheap, useful alternative to bottling all of my beer. I would be grateful for any advice. Rick Gontarek Owner/brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery Baltimore, MD gontarek at ncifcrf.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 07:47:00 EST From: "Pamela J. Day 7560" <DAY at A1.TCH.HARVARD.EDU> Subject: Drying hops... an easy solution Hello All, I've been monitoring the hop drying debate for around a month and while most of the solutions posted were good ideas, none were practical for me. I went out & made a small investment ($25.00) by buying a food dehydrator figuring that if it didn't work for hops I'd dry stuff from my garden. It works great! In about 3 hours I dried 2 quarts (2 quart sized baggies) of chinook hops. It doesn't get too hot, there's no light involved & it's quick. For those of you who'd like a little more info, e mail me at DAY at a1.tch.harvard.edu & I'll be glad to give you more details. Hoppy Brewing Pam Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 09:36:10 EST From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) Subject: starch test/hopdry/archive/geometry I just finished my third try at the two-temperature mash that was recommended for American 2-row (somewhere on HBD last winter), holding mash at 55-60C for 20 minutes; then raising to 70-75C. First two times, I noticed what I thought was a quick quick conversion at the higher temperature, so this time I did the iodine check as soon as my mash hit 70 and--lo--iodine says all the conversion is over & done. So. Is this weird or what? Should I hold the mash at 70-75 anyway or go straight for mashout? Is my understanding of iodine tests stoopid? What's going on here? BTW, I use a schmidling-esque kettle procedure, on a gas stove, and get a fairly rapid (maybe 10 minutes) temperature increase from 60-70. On hop-drying, I'm definitely no pro, but the 140 degree drying temperature sounds too high. In my handy dandy Harvest Maid dryer, I tried one tray of fresh hops at a thermostat setting of 125 and toasted the hops overnight (I assumed they were ruined and didn't try brewing with them). My second try was at a setting of 90, and it seemed better. This dryer blows the hot air through the hops in the trays. Of course, the thermostat in this dryer may not exactly be perfectly calibrated--plus or minus 75%? I have dried lots of herbs in this machine and generally believe that lower temp and longer time is better and would think the same true for hops. Isn't the 140 temp mostly for the commercial boys who have to worry about efficiency in big volumes? To Darren, For those of us who are FTP-impaired, could you give us the exact name of the new grain-brewing document in the Sierra archives. TIA. And while I'm occupying your cyberspace, I must have missed some posts from George Fix on the geometry of fermenters. Could someone direct me. My dear one is buying me an old small two-burner gas stove to put in the basement and throwing me and my mashing-mess out of the kitchen (and, no, I've got no way to use a 10-zillion btu kajun kooker). I do have access to lots of scrap stainless sheet and thought I just might weld up a couple stainless boxes that would fit neatly over both burners and maybe later double as fermenters (to hell with 5-gallon batches!!!). Any ideas on perfect geometry for a stainless box? Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 09:37 From: KWH at roadnet.ups.com (KWH) Subject: Erlenmeyer flasks, etc. Thanks to all the responses on inadvertently freezing yeast and purposely freezing fruit to sterilize. The overwhelming response was to avoid both; the yeast may be OK, if not slower starting. Make a starter and observe it before pitching. I recently bought some Lavin KIV-1116 yeast for a future mead. I since have read in a Zymurgy article that yeast names or numbers that are preceeded by a "K" are Killer yeasts, that in some way kill wild yeast. Is this valid? Does anyone have descriptions of Lavin and other mead/wine yeasts similar to the beer yeasts in the yeast faq? I'm looking for a cheap source of Erlenmeyer flasks and glass airlocks, preferably in the Baltimore/Northern Maryland area, or mail order if necessary. William's catalog lists 500 ML and 1000 ML flasks for $5.50 and $8.50 respectively. With shipping charges, this seems pretty high - can I do better elsewhere? Kirk Harralson kwh at roadnet.ups.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 10:07:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jerry Cunningham (ESMPD)" <gcunning at Census.GOV> Subject: I'm worthless! Hey everybody, I like stories about exploding carboys. I like stories about &%#! bugs eating hop plants. I like stories about boil-overs, infections, beer-flooded basements, etc. Please keep them coming! Thanks. Worthlessly, Jerry Cunningham Annapolis, MD Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 10:22:19 EDT From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu> Subject: Pumpkin Ale In HBD 1524, Tim Staiano (tstaiano at ramapo.ultrix.edu) asks about info on brewing a pumpkin ale. There are some fairly straightforward extract recipes in the Cats Meow collection, which you can snag off anonymous FTP to sierra.stanford.edu These include "Pumpkin Ale" by Kevin Dombroski, which was posted to HBD on 10/7/92 and "Great Pumpkin Bitter" by Barry Cunningham which was posted to HBD 299 on 11/9/89. If anybody's interested, I've got an old issue of "American Brewer" here in which Bill Owens lists his recipe for "Buffalo Bills Pumpkin Ale". It does however, make 15 barrels, which could be a little much for some of our home breweries ;-) I'll post it if there's enough interest, otherwise I'll save the bandwidth and the wear and tear on my fingers. ;-) There's also an all-grain pumpkin ale in Charlie Papazian's new book "The Home Brewers Companion". The recipe is called "Cucurbito Pepo" and is on page 315. Cheers! - ---Mark Stevens stevens at stsci.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 11:58:50 EST From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org> Subject: Drying Hops and Other Brewing Heating Uses An acquaintance wanted to heat his fermenter because of the cold temps, and settled on using a lightbulb in a box. He rigged up an aluminum foil cover for the lightbulb to prevent light from being a problem. I believe it was just a box shape and didn't touch the lightbulb. Could work for hop drying as well. John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 10:35:44 EDT From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu> Subject: Hop drying In HBD 1523, Glenn Tinseth (gtinsetch at teleport.com) writes: > All the oxidation hops *ever* > need occurs during the drying process. Do everything in your power to > prevent it from there on out. Get your hops from a reputable supplier you > trust, or your garden, and store them in barrier packaging in the freezer Okay. This makes sense. But how do I, average Joe homebrewer, do that? If I'm growing hops in my backyard, what I can do to keep them at their freshest? I'm already drying them, putting them in zip-lock bags, and trying to squeeze as much air out as possible (by setting an anvil on the filled bag) before sealing, then dropping them in the freezer. Is there some type of more effective packaging that I can do to create a better barrier?? *** In HBD 1524, John (the Coyote) Wyllie defended his previous comments about light, heat and oxygen damaging hops. Hmmm. Good points John. I think I also mis-understood your earlier comments about light damage too. I was thinking merely of light striking isomerized hops and forgot that any kind of plant is going to start degrading once its picked, so your point about light causing the hops to turn brown or excessive oxygen causing discoloration and aroma changes is well taken. In any case, it seems pretty clear to me that in order to dry your hops, you have to put up with SOME degradation in some aspect of the hop quality. As Glenn Tinseth pointed out, some degree of oxidation is expected in dried hops. However, you certainly want to minimize the damage, and fortunately, it only takes a few hours to dry hops. I'm backing away from the idea of using the light bulb now since I think you're right that what you really want is some source of forced hot air. However, I'm not completely comfortable with the idea of using a hair dryer, but it's probably a step in the right direction. Cheers! - ---Mark Stevens stevens at stsci.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 10:38:13 EDT From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: good price for malt extract, cider - ----------------------- Mail item text follows --------------- To: I1010141--IBMMAIL From: Bob Paolino Research Analyst Subject: good price for malt extract, cider 1) someone was wondering about "cut-rate" malt extract and whether there are cheaper alternatives to paying $7.50 for M&F. I attempted to answer by private email and sent it to the wrong place, based on the reply I received (the email equivalent of "sorry, wrong number") from another hbd'er. I have since discarded that hbd. If you'd like me to resend the note, let me know. The abbreviated version of the note, for anyone else who might be interested, is that "Northwestern" (Briess) extracts are commonly available for $50/ case of 10-3.3 pound bag-in-box. The original note contains more information, but it's a little long to be of general interest. 2) J.M. Michalski asked about cider. I would _not_ boil it unless you are doing it for the purpose of reducing the volume to boost the gravity. Campden tablets? I don't use them, and I've heard from at least one other club member that he regretted doing it because it took forever to take off. I make only a couple batches of cider per year, following our club cider pressings. With that statement of limited experience as a disclaimer, I will say that the ones I have enjoyed the most are the ones that I allowed to begin fermenting "naturally" in the gallon jugs. I let them start out on the wild yeasts and then put them in a fermenter and pitch. I boost the gravity at that point by addinga few cans of apple juice concentrate. Get the stuff without additives. Throw in a can or two of the Granny Smith concetrate if you like it. I've even included a can of grape juice concentrate (be sure it's 100%, and not "grape juice drink"). Brown sugar is a good adjunct for ciders, but I prefer using the juice. I like DRY ciders, and use a relatively attenuative ale yeast. Dry yeast (Edme ale) works fine. I've had that bring a 1.050-1.060 OG down to the .990s! That may nor may not be to your taste. I have used Champagne yeast and have not been as pleased, but others report good results. Good luck and enjoy. Bob Paolino Disoriented in Badgerspace Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 10:56:19 EDT From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com Subject: cider, Scotland Chris Evans asks about making hard cider. In Zymurgy Summer 1992 Vol 15 No.2 p.25 there is an excellent article on hard cider. I made one of the recipes and it came out like a crystal clear dry white wine. I will be going to Scotland soon and would like to meet any Scottish homebrewers. We will start in Edinburgh and travel with an open schedule. Please reply by e-mail: homebre973 at aol.com Thanks, Andy Kligerman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 10:56:29 -0400 From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com> Subject: carboy breaks Re: turner at cel.cummins.com (Turner) >Glass, water everywhere, all in all it was a beautiful sight. Unfortunately, not all have had your good fortune by remaining bodily intact. An email aquaintance recently needed 25 stitches when his glass carboy broke. Fortunately, no major blood vessels, nerves, or tendons were affected. It sure got me to thinking about replacing my glass carboys with Polycarbonate or HDPE (High Density Poly Ethylene). I know the difficulties of sanitizing plastics but that much glass is too dangerous. Does anyone have a good source? - --Tony Verhulst Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 11:03:40 EDT From: Mark A. Stevens <stevens at stsci.edu> Subject: Cranberry beers In HBD 1524, Joseph Santos (jesantos at wpi.edu) asks about brewing a cranberry stout for Thanksgiving. Actually, cranberries might work better in a paler beer than in a stout. Generally, when you're working with a dark beer as your base, you need quite a bit more fruit than you'd need if you used a light base because you're competing with the relatively intense roasted flavors of the darker malts. A pale base also has the advantage of showing off the color of your fruit. With a light colored beer, a fair amount of redness should be imparted from your cranberries. A good example of what to do with cranberries can be found in the recipe "Cranbeery Ale" which appears on page 198 of "Homebrew Favorites" (Storey Publishing, 1994, ISBN 0-88266-613-4). The beer was brewed by fellow net brewer Carlo Fusco, who might jump in and provide more details of what he did with the beer. Here's his recipe: Cranbeery Ale ============= 3.75 pounds Coopers light malt extract 3.3 pounds Munton & Fison amber malt extract 4 pounds split cranberries 1-1/2 ounces Fuggles (4.2% alpha, in boil 60 minutes) 1/2 ounce Fuggles in boil 10 minutes 2 teaspoons yeast nutrient 1 teaspoon pectin enzyme Munton & Fison dry yeast 3/4 cup corn sugar for priming Carlo says that he put the fruit in after the boil. He turned off heat and then added fruit, letting it steep for 1 hour before transferring to primary. He then fermented in primary with the fruit for 4 days before racking off the fruit to secondary for another 7 days, then racking again for yet another 7 days. His tasting notes say describe the flavor as "mildly sour and closer to a pseudo-lambic than a fruit beer". He suggests aging the beer for 3 months and says "It was a big hit at Thanksgiving." Cheers! - ---Mark Stevens stevens at stsci.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 10:19:06 CDT From: z920951 at uprc.com (Graves Peter) Subject: Re: Sources of Small Pumps? Howdy all, first post to HBD... hope it goes ok. >From: bob at rsi.com (Bob Gorman): >I'm looking for a source of pumps to use in my homebrewery. I currently I just went searching last week for a 'prefect' pump... Grainger stocked the 'prefect' a couple years ago, but stopped. So I called the tech rep at Grainger in Chicago. (708) 913-7400. He gave me the pump manufacturer's name... who does not sell to the public, but has a local rep. That's the short version! The original 'prefect' pump... Old Grainger Stock No: 1P956 Motor Spec: 1/25 HP, 115V, 3400 RPM, 60 Hz. motor Capacity: 4.0 GPM at 4 Ft head Pump Body: Bronze Inlet connection: 1/2" male NPT Outlet connection: 1/2" male NPT Desciption: High efficiency bronze Hot Water booster pump designed for loops handling pressure to 150 PSI, water temperatures to 250 degress F. May be used in all types of domestic solar sysytems and hot water recirculation in residences, garden apartments, and studios. <snip> Pump operates quietly. Inner baffle plate permits servicing without losing hot water. PUMP CONSTUCTION: Body - bronze; Impeller - Ryton; Impeller Housing - type 304 stainless steel; Shaft - type 316 stainless steel; O-ring - silicon rubber; UL recognized. Cost: $72.70 couple years ago.... Call March Manufacturing in Grandview, Il. at (708) 729-5309, and ask for your local manufacturer's representative... Orders are placed with the local rep... My local rep is Texas Products in Dallas at (214) 902-8077 The pump is a March Pump No. 809HSB (used to be Teel Industrial Series). I paid about $135. #:^( Email with questions. ***** Always use a Ground Fault Interupter with pumps in the brewery. GFI's ***** are cheap, Grainger has a Extension cord configuration for about $40... ***** or just check the life insurance is paid up! Also consider ***** a foot switch. I have not got the pump as of yet, so stay turned for my hands on experience in a few days.... Cheers Pete Give yeast a chance! Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:18:08 -0400 (EDT) From: BREWS at delphi.com Subject: posting clarification Well.. shush my mouth for saying anything to offend the holy masters of the keyboard brewery. I won't apologize for the message or the manner of its writer.I should however clarify my intent for the record,since only a few people understood it in the way it was intended. I have no interest in continuing this discussion further so why don't all the illiterate dirigibles lay off. I've never said anything to deserve such a vicious personal attack as I've gotten . I don't agree with a lot of the things said in this forum but have the common decency to not rip the writer to shreds via the faceless net of the HBD I never have had much use for lazy people so I don't condone them trying to get other people to do their work for them. You cannot learn by asking someone else to paraphrase an experience. You can improve by doing it and that was the intent of my post. Go brew it with a friend and try some new techniques. This is supposed to be a fun hobby and a social one also. Once you've tried to figure it out on your own and are having problems,I'd be more than happy to help you out! There is no elitism here, some of my best beers have been made from kits,even if I do prefer all grain brewing. I also enjoy a good discussion and look forward to a bit of controversy.I do however expect it to be conducted in the spirit of improving this wonderful hobby. The ruthless beating dished out here is more than a justifiable excuse to leave this forum of mean spirits. With that said...Good riddance to the bad apples. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:41:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> Subject: Re: A few bits Pierre writes: > Subject: Iodophor concentration > I wrote: > > Higher levels will give faster results, but rinsing is a good idea (as > > long as you have reasonably clean water, I use hot hot water). > > Higher levels do not give faster results above the recommended > concentration (in a first approximation) because of the buffering effect: > more iodophor means more reserve, but not higher free iodine. > Iodophors with 5 ppm free iodine will sterilize completely anything in > less than 5 minutes (except for one or two very odd spores), and kill any > common microorganism (though not their spores) in 15 seconds. Wow! Thats faster than I thought. Pierre, thanks for the info, I stand corrected. Yet another non lazy, worthless post :-) Gordon writes: > what exactly I was attempting to brew on that occasion. This is probably > why Jim and Micah are brewing professionally and I'm not. (sigh) Micah is a pro, Im not (yet at least, maybe in another lifetime ;-) Also, no need to sigh about this. If you can maximize your hobby and still work a day job that you enjoy, theres nothing better than being able to manage your free time, drink your own brew and relax when it moves you. Pros dont get much of this luxurious lifestyle. Good brewing, Jim Busch Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 09:46:00 -0600 From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones) Subject: Useless Drivel? Unfortunately, Bruce (brews at delphi.com) chose a tone for his message which was sure to elicit digest-clogging counter flames. But I think he had some good points, which I will try to restate in a manner intended more to incite rational discussion than flames. To wit: The amount of bandwidth allotted to the HBD is precious indeed, and the amount of traffic seen here often means posts (questions or replies) take days to work their way through the backlog. I think that the digest is an excellent forum to discuss information that can't be found elsewhere. However, I don't understand why so many beginners expect the more experienced brewers to donate the time and bandwidth to answer basic questions, just to save them the 10 bucks or so it would cost to buy a copy of TNCJOHB or Miller. Furthermore, their are so many questions that come up every 3 months or so, that perhaps only 1 or 2 articles per digest actually have any new material. Would it be so hard for people to consult the archives to see if their questions have already been answered? That is what the archives are for, after all. In short, I feel that any question (whether it's a beginner type or an advanced topic) is perfectly fine here, but do your own "legwork" first: consult a basic brewing text, then the sierra archives, and then, if you still don't find an answer, ask it here. The result will be a much more informative, much less backlogged, digest. flame protection disclaimer: "I have no association whatever with brews at delphi.com"!!!! Kelly Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 11:15:02 -0500 From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler) Subject: need mead Tasted a really good mead for the first time. Now I want to make one. All advice, recipes, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Please, add details about types of honey and yeast, amounts of other ingredients, boil vs not boil, etc. I think that I've seen most reference material, but if you feel particularly strongly about any source, I'd like to hear that too. TIA jayw Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 12:58:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Arthur McGregor 614-0205 <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> Subject: Re: AutoSparger/Oxygen Barrier Bag Sources Hi All, After all the discussion on autosparging, I thought a post of my private email might be of interest to others. Also want to ask the HBD for some sources of oxygen barrier bags. AUTOSPARGERS I've only made one all grain, hope to do 2nd all grain this weekend. I sparge by removing the top of cooler add a quart of water at a time. I've thought about auto spargers also, but would require leaving top off of cooler, or leaving it loosely on top of cooler. I saw a Phils Sparger system (std disclaimer) that had the the Phil's Sparger installed directly through the top of the cooler (i.e. drill hole through cooler top and push tube out of cooler, as ascii diagram below: Hot sparge water in || || ------------------||----------------- | || | < LID |------------------||-----------------| | || | | AUTO || SPARGER | | ---------------||--------------- | | -------------------------------- | | ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' | | ' ' s ' p ' a ' r ' g 'e ' ' | | ' ' ' w ' a ' t ' e ' r ' ' | < COOLER | ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' | | ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' | | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| |. . . . . . .G.R.A.I.N. . . . . .| | . . . . . . . .B.E.D. . . . . . . | |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | The Phil's Sparger is supposed to rotates as the water rains down on the grains. I would prefer to not permanently mutilate my gott cooler. The only thing I have thought of so far is to remove top and replace with a thick piece of styrofoam and punch hole in it. The styrofoam would then be used only during the sparging. I was told that the plastic bottling bucket with sparge water and clamp on hose can be used to adjust flow so it is same rate as wort coming out of cooler and into pot (also as seen in Charlie P.'s new book "The Home Brewer's Companion"). How much does an autosparger systems help? Some of the documents in the HBD archives talk about draining off the mash first liquids, then adding all the sparge water, stirring, waiting, then draining 2nd runnings. Do any commercials breweries do this? I understand that stuck sparges and filtering are some of the reasons for not wanting to disturb the grainbed or letting the liquid level get below the grainbed. Are there others? Would there be any reason why an infusion mash should _or_should_not_ essentially go through two mashes, one at 150-158F for one hour, draining, add 170F sparge water, stir, rest for 2nd hour, then 2nd draining? OXYGEN BARRIER BAG SOURCES I would like to look into buying oxygen barrier bags for vacuum sealing my home grown hops, but don't have a source for the bags. Does anyone have a source with phone number? Is the material expensive? I plan to use a vacuum sealer machine that heat seals bags after sucking the air out. Any experience out there doing this with oxygen barrier bags? Also if this works, could it be safely used for separating and storing bulk quantity purchased hops? TIA Good Brews! Art McGregor (mcgregap at acq.osd.mil) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:58:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Sean Lamb <SLAMB at lrlmccer.jsc.nasa.gov> Subject: 1994 Dixie Cup Update .. Fabulous Prize for BOS Winner I've been e-mail impaired as of late and had wished to get this message out a couple of weeks ago, better late than never, I guess. 1994 Dixie Cup Homebrewing Competition Update The world's first intergalactic hombrew competition is now planning to take on the mantle of "The King" of competitons. The big "E" himself, Elvis A Presley, is the mascot of this year's hub bub. The Dixie Cup will be held in Houston, TX 14-16 October. Entries are $6 and are due by 1 October. Telephone DeFalco's Home Wine and Beer stuff place at 800-216-BREW to request an entry flier. The Festivities Extolled: Friday night's Fred Eckhardt Epicurean Extravagnaza will be "Beer and Ice Cream". Got any fried bananas to go with that? The line-up of speakers for the Saturday morining milli-conference has firmed up to be Mr. Brad Kraus, winner of a few GABF awards while brewer at Santa Fe Brewing Co., now of Rio Bravo brewpb in Albuquerque, and one-time Grand Wazoo of the Foam Rangers; Mr. Tim Herring, big man in brewing operations at the Anchor Brewery in San Francisco; and the Mr. Wizard of brewing, George Fix. Darryl Richman, author of _Bock_, the latest tome in the Brewer's Publications' line of beer-style books is threatening to tag along with Dr. Fix, as is Martin Lodahl, one of those left coast pseudo-lambic and Belgian beer geeks. Other brewing luminaries are sure to attend. The Saturday pub crawl will include all of the open brewpubs and micros in Houston (a minimum of 4 stops). Afterwards, the New Orlean's Crescent City Homebrewers will provide their unsurpassed "hurt yo' sef" jambalaya. The crowning moment of this "King" of competitions will be the presentation of the Best of Show award on during the Saturday night awards. Along with allowing Tim Herring to visit our "Heartbreak Hotel", Anchor has graciously decided to have Tim present to the Best Of Show winner an award of a trip to their brewery. The trip includes round-trip airfare, one night's lodging, and a tour of the brewery. Sunday at noon will bring the return of the "World's Fastest Homebrewer" competition at Malibu Grand Prix. And of course, in amongst this folderol will be the judging of beers. The Dixie Cup is expected to attract over 800 entries this year, and all possible help will be appreciated. If you can come early (Thursday the 13th), call DeFlaco's and let us know. We may have to crack a few beers early to get the thing under way. Early judging the afternoon of Friday the 14th is also anticipated. The planned 1st round will start at 6 PM on Friday. 2nd round is noon on Saturday. Any questions can be e-mailed to me or phoned to DeFalco's at the 800 no. above. Happy Brewing Sean Lamb -- slamb at lrlmccer.jsc.nasa.gov -- Houston, TX Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 13:08:33 EDT From: bszymcz%ulysses at relay.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak) Subject: Re: Hop Utilization and Forced Ventilation In HBD1517 Bob Jones mentioned about Micah Millspaw increasing his hop utilization by using forced ventilation. Since no one else posted a explanation yet, I thought I'd stick out my neck and give it a try. Since the slightly lower pressure induced by the fan's suction will reduce the boiling temperature it seems as if higher temperatures alone are not responsible for hop utilization (assuming his boil times were not changed). That is, the boiling temperature dropped using forced ventilation and the hop utilization went up. I suppose it is possible that hop utilization increases with lower boiling temperatures but this seems unlikely, unless brewers at high elevations get better utilization than sea-level brewers. Another possibility is the effect of the vapor bubble dynamics in the boiling wort. Typically, as the wort is vaporized at the bottom of the kettle, the bubbles rise until they burst at the surface, letting the steam escape into the air. Perhaps, by using forced ventilation, the wort near the surface is cooled and as the bubbles rise into this cooler region they collapse (since the saturation vapor pressure is lower in the cooler region) before venting. This may also explain why boil-overs are prevented. As the bubbles collapse (most often asymmetrically with high-speed liquid jets travelling through the bubbles and impacting their opposite sides) the pressures and temperatures inside the bubble can become very high. If these bubbles are collapsing instead of venting then the situation may be analogous to the cavitation formed by using power ultrasound on liquids, which been shown to greatly increase a wide variety of chemical reactions. I have even seen a reference to a paper in which power ultrasound has been used as a new processing aid in food technology, improving such areas as the extraction of flavorings. Perhaps the hop utilization is increased as a result of this effect also. Although I have been working in the field of bubble dynamics for several years the above is only a conjecture on my part. My work has been primarily concerned with large scale explosion bubbles in which chemistry reactions are ignored. My degree is in applied mathematics, not chemistry. Hopefully, other HBD'ers who know more about the chemistry, in particular, the area of "sonochemistry" or "sonoluminescence" (the collapsing bubbles actually glow) may shed more light on the subject. However, the phenomenon is not completely understood, at least according to the talks I attended last year. Maybe this hop utilization application (the Millspaw effect) would make for a good Ph.D thesis topic. For those interested, here are two references: Sonochemistry-a technology of the future, by T.J. Mason, Chemistry and Industry (1993) 47-50. Sonochemistry, by K.S. Suslick, Science (1990) Vol 247, 1439-1445. Bill Szymczak bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 12:37:30 CDT From: lierman at ssd.comm.mot.com (Ken Lierman) Subject: newbie malt question Yes, this is a newbie question, so Bruce feel free to ignore this.... I have been wondering what is the difference between light, amber, and dark extracts. Then I stumbled across the following in a thread on wortchillers (go figure...) > If you buy only pale malt extract, you can make your own amber or dark > extract with ease. Here are some rules of thumb. > Adjust quantities according to taste. Assume 5 gallons of beer. > > Amber Malt 1-2 cups of crystal malt. 2 cups will add a > significant sweetness to the beer. You will barely > be able to taste 1 cup but you WILL taste it. > > Dark Malt At least 1 cup of crystal and 1/2 to 1 cup chocolate > malt for a decently strong chocolate/bock tasting > beer. More chocolate and crystal for porter-ish > dark beer. Is this the only difference and are these values accurate? Also, will adding more of a malt make the beer darker, or just increase the amount of fermentables? The same article goes on to say: > My other advice is to skip extract recipes altogether and look at the > all-grain ones, substituting 2 cans of pale malt extract for 8-10 > pounds of pale malt and adding specialty grains as recommended in the > recipe. What pale malt types could be substituted in this way, and is it safe to say that 2 cans would be about 6lbs of extract? E-mail is fine, I'll post the results. Thanks for the help! Kenneth Lierman lierman at ssd.comm.mot.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon Sep 12 13:41:43 1994 From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com Subject: Cider Beer? Yes, as others have mentioned, the apple season here in New England is booming and my thoughts are turning toward that apple beer once again. I was wondering if anyone out there has had any experience in using fresh unpasturized, unfiltered, cider from an orchard in the boil rather than actual fruit or an extract? I imagine this stuff would make an excellent hard cider. (maybe with a dash of cinnamon :-) Private e-mail preferred, unless of course someone out there wants to start a fruit faq?! ;-) Sorry for the drivel, **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ---- **** C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~| `--' --------------braddw at rounder.com------------- `--' ------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1525, 09/13/94

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