HOMEBREW Digest #1698 Wed 05 April 1995

Digest #1697 Digest #1699

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Covered boils (Aidan Heerdegen)
  Info Req'd on 'The Beer Machine' ("Balstrup, Peter")
  New HomeBrew related Web Page: HBU BBS Network (Andrew Patrick)
  bad beer (Hristo)
  Wheat Beer Question (great)
  New Thermometer and RIMS plumbing question (Chris Barnhart)
  Hops: to trellis or not to trellis? That is the question.. (mark evans)
  racking off trub ("Bob Hall" )
  HELP: English Ale (George Gale & Co.'s Champion Ale) (Philip DiFalco)
  Re: unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc (spencer)
  Center for Brewing Studies? (PatrickM50)
  Oxygen in wort, Lead in crystal (Kelly Jones)
  beer for wedding ("Dulisse, Brian")
  Re-using hops ("Lee C. Bussy")
  Honey for Priming (Steven W. Schultz )
  subspace info (CGEDEN)
  Need for Secondary (Rob Emenecker)
  O2 vs. Air "The final word; My mistake" (Dr. David C. Harsh)
  Disaster looking for a place to happen! (Gary Flock)
  North Carolina Concerns (Jay Rustine)
  RE: Mitch's Red Beers (uswlsrap)
  cold/hot break....chill haze (Dan Pack)
  Ale vs Lager Yeasts in Bruce and Kays.... (Jeff Easter)
  honey priming/new counterflow chiller (Andrew J Donohue)
  mail order - HopTech and others ("Harold R. Wood")
  Racking to secondary (t.duchesneau)
  Homebrew archives (Philip Gravel)
  Contaminated batch (TPuskar)
  Glass carboys--big ones (TPuskar)
  Honey Beer Revisited (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900  )
  Is lager still good? (DUBOVIK)
  Road Trip Info Request - Clearwater & Louisville ("Yunke, Pat")
  Sam Adams Double Bock (Stephen Meredith)
  Brewpub recipes and posting compet. (Jim Busch)
  Priming with Light DME (Rob Emenecker)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 14:36:36 EST From: Aidan Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au> Subject: Covered boils Re: The importance of covered boils Jim Busch (busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov) says: | I was not referring to DMS. The condensate contains very | unpleasent bitter compounds that are better left out of the wort. The brewer chappy at the local brew pub told me I should keep my boils partially covered for a couple of reasons. Firstly to get a more vigorous boil (mine was a little wimpy even with a 4 kW element and 40L of wort) and secondly he said oxidation can occur in the boil if a layer of steam is not covering the wort, and with my boiler I needed to keep the lid partially on to make sure there was this layer ... Comments? Had a minor disaster with my mash on the weekend ... the pipe that comes out of the bottom of my 48L mash/lauter tun cooler popped out .. and the 25L of mash liquor just poured out . I was too late to save it ... *sigh*. Luckily I brew outside, so it was no big trauma viz a viz cleaning up (i.e. no cleaning necessary), but it was getting on in the brew day and I couldn't be bothered thinking up some clever but time consuming way of re-using the grain, so I tossed it and started another mash. This time, instead of trying to be too clever and have the pipe coming out the bottom of my mash tun, I put the plug back in and used a stand-pipe arrangement (luckily for me my hoses and manifold tubing all fitted together snugly, so it took 5 mins to convert to the new system). This worked perfectly, so I'll use this method from now on. I have been thinking about mashout (a bit of a problem for a single infusion man like myself who works his tun to the limit already!) and recirculating to establish a grain bed filter. I experimented with my my batch yesterday on something to combine both, not terribly original, but what the hell. I drew off approx 4L of the mash liquor into my kettle and brought it to the boil and then added it back into the mash, thereby heating the grain bed and recirculating at the same time. It seemed to work ok, except 4L was not nearly enough to bring the grain bed up to a mashout type temp, so next time I'll draw off more liquid and top up the mash tun with water from my sparge tun so as not to leave the grain bed dry (is this a problem? I just seem to remember a big debate one time between the "never let the water level fall below the level of your grain" vs "who cares" schools of thought). Can anyone see any problems with this? Cheers Aidan [brewing 40/50L batches coz his flatmate drinks too fast] - -- Aidan Heerdegen e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 17:54:00 EST From: "Balstrup, Peter" <PBalstru at VITGCOM1.TELECOM.com.au> Subject: Info Req'd on 'The Beer Machine' Hello World, I am a home-brewer in Melbourne, Australia. I am considering buying a "Beer Machine" which is manufactured by the "Great American Micro Brewery Company" at Puyallup, Washington. It is a plastic barrel wherein fermentation takes place, and from which the beer is dispensed. It has a pressure relief valve which apparently allows a certain amount of carbonation to remain within the barrel. A CO2 bulb is incorporated in order to maintain a positive inside pressure. Can someone please give me an idea of how effective these Beer Machines are? I am a little skeptical about the product, but it could be a labor-saving device if it works well. They cost $199 (Australian) so I wouldn't like to waste that kind of money on a product that may not work. Hoping someone can help me. Regards Peter Balstrup PBalstru at vitgcom1.telecom.com.au I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 04:01:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com> Subject: New HomeBrew related Web Page: HBU BBS Network I am pleased to announce that the HomeBrew U BBS Network now has its own Web Page. The relevant URL is: http://www.mcs.com/~andnator/hbu.html Current highlights include a very detailed listing of National and Midwestern homebrew events. You can send e-mail to contacts directly from the Web Page itself. Andy Patrick (andnator at mcs.com) Brewmaster, Harlem Brewing Co, Inc. Certified Beer Judge; Founder, HomeBrew U BBS Network: Chicago 708-705-7263, Houston 713-923-6418, Milwaukee 414-238-9074 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 02:57:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Hristo <CURLEYS at carleton.edu> Subject: bad beer My friend and I have been brewing only for a couple of months, and we're still inexperienced enough to be able to admit to brewing a really lousy beer. In fact, we just put out a petroleum-flavored bock. So, my question is one that I'm sure every homebrewer has to face once in a while: what to do with a irrepairably bad batch of beer? Obviously, there are tons of recipies calling for beer, which is fine, but we're looking for really creative solutions for the problem. Specifiaclly, I've heard that beer makes a good hair conditioner. Anyone ever tried this? Or have any better ideas? Sorry to take up room with such a whimsical request. Also, since I'm pretty much a nasty lurker, let me take this opportunity to thank everyone on the list for a very helpful publication. private answers are, of course, probably best in this case. -SC CURLEYS at carleton.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:13:56 -0500 From: great at ATW.fullfeed.com Subject: Wheat Beer Question I am Looking For a Recipe for a Wheat Beer made from a Wheat Extract. If Anyone Has One I would really appreciated It. Thanks. Daniel R Dean <Internet Address>great at ATW.fullfeed.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 8:30:37 EDT From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha at letterkenn-emh1.army.mil> Subject: New Thermometer and RIMS plumbing question Hi all, I was busily scrounging around for an electronic thermometer for my soon to be completed 3 barrel "Sabco type" RIMS system when I came across the following thermometer: Checktemp Digital Electronic Thermometer Range -58 - 302F Resolution .1F (-58F - 199.9F), 1F (200 - 302F) Accuracy .4F (-4 - 194F) 3.3F cable w/remote SS probe Built in calibration test device (Alfa Aesar lists this, Techni-tool lists a NIST calibration certificate) Available in Celsius and Fahrenheit versions. Price: $29.00 Sounded like a pretty handy thermometer and the price is right. I just ordered one from Techni-Tool out of PA (610-941-2400). Alfa Aesar also carries the Checktemp but only sells to corporate accounts. (No affiliation, blah, blah, blah) Also, a question for the collective wisdom of RIMS builders. How did you plumb your systems? 1/2 rigid copper? 1/2 refrigeration tube and compression fittings? Chris "Barny" Barnhart Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:03:28 -0600 From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (mark evans) Subject: Hops: to trellis or not to trellis? That is the question.. I have grown hops three seasons (four poles this season). I have grown them up sturdy strings that are affixed to 18-20 foot poles. Two years ago I barely weathered a severely stormy summer with only one pole disaster. This year, one of my poles (actually slender tree trunks I weed out of a nearby woods) broke upon lowering it last fall. Question: how do others support their hop vines/bines. I know this comes up every year, but if one isn't changing their method, one pays no attention. I seem to recall some people mention that thy grew vines on trellises. Perhaps hop growers could e-mail me or the HBD with their hop support methods. How high a trellis/screen? How did the yield compare to strings? Poles? HOw did you construct it? How high is the support? I'm actually looking for how LOW I can get away with. TIA Brewfully, Mark p.s. Hey, am I on the top ten list for most-posts-to-HBD-this-year yet? *ho ho* ========================================================= "I do a lot of different things. I just can't remember what they are right now." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:45:13 -0400 From: "Bob Hall" <bhall at sparc.ecology.uga.edu> Subject: racking off trub Thomas Aylesworth writes regarding the merit of racking beer off hops and protein trub: > However, even when I did extract brews and left the fermenting >beer on the break material, I didn't notice any significant off-flavors >I would attribute to this. This could be just because I was not as >experienced a brewer/beer taster. What type of beers do you brew? If I make fruity, hoppy pale ales or dark ales, I tend not to notice if I leave any break material in the carboy, perhaps because the flavor profile of these beers is already dominated by esters and the like. However, a Munich Helles, or any other light tasting lager will clearly show the effects of sitting on the trub in terms of pholic and perhaps oxidized flavors. I made a Munich dunkel last spring that was somewhat phenolic, and which grew worse through time. I attributed this flavor and lack of stability to a poor job of racking the beer off the trub (it was fermented at 50 F.). Other opinions/suggestions? Bob Hall bhall at sparc.ecology.uga.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 09:30:51 -0400 From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at aikman.fnma.COM> Subject: HELP: English Ale (George Gale & Co.'s Champion Ale) A friend and I are starting a small cider winery in Virginia. In our start-up pursuits, we have come across about a thousand cases of English ales and sparkling-ciders, for the asking. These cases have been stored in a non-climate controlled environment for 5 to 7 years (with temperatures ranging between 30^F and 95^F through the seasons). The label's of the two different Ales display the following information: - Brewed and Bottled at the Brewery, Horndean, Hampshire, England George Gale & Co's Champion Ale Contents 16-9 fl.oz. * these bottles include a Trade Mark, "SERVABO FIDEM". - FELINFOEL Double Dragon Export Ale Contents 11 oz., 325 ml. * these "11 oz. can" mention the following: Double Dragon Export Ale From the oldest canners of beer in the world. An ale of exceptional quality with a character taste and flavour that is the envy of real ale brewers the world over. Brewed and canned at the Felinfoel Brewery. Felinfoel, Llanelli, Dyfed, Wales, U.K. The "Champion Ale" is quite good, despite the non-ideal storage conditions. I'm hesitant to try the FELINFOEL, considering how long it has been in the can. If anyone knows anything about either of these ales, or anything about these brewery's, or the address of these brewery's (or ph.#), please email me. We are investigating whether we might be able to resell or give away (with a deposit for the bottles) these ales. If anyone knows of any laws prohibiting or allowing such transactions, please email me. Thanks in advance for any help. - --- Philip DiFalco, sxupjd at fnma.com FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20016 1-202-752-2812; 1-800-SKY-FNMA (PIN#471-1735) Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:16:46 EDT From: spencer at med.umich.edu Subject: Re: unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc Russell Mast wrote about unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc: > Well, if you think you're time is worth less than $1.25 an hour, > it's worth it. My "hobby" time is worth $0/hr, essentially. That is, if I wasn't brewing, I still wouldn't get paid. At least I'm doing something I enjoy. =Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:28:37 -0400 From: PatrickM50 at aol.com Subject: Center for Brewing Studies? Lenny posts: <"Can anyone send me the mailing address for the Center for Brewing Studies in San Francisco?" I Don't know of a Center for Brewing Studies in SF per se, but 40 miles north of The City in the town of Rohnert Park, CA is the Craft Brewing Business Institute, located at Sonoma State University and under the direction of George Johnson. Its charter is to keep track of the Craft Brewing business, to generate business and financial rates and to report on the impact of the Craft Brewing business on the economy. It is essentially a clearing house for information re: the commercial Craft Brewing industry and is not really directed toward homebrewing. George is a very personable fellow and can be reached at cbbi at sonoma.edu. He also has a page set up on the WWW, i.e.= http://www.sonoma.edu/cbbi/. I'm not sure if this is what Lenny was specifically asking about - perhaps he needs info on the Brewing research going on at Univ. of Ca at Davis. Any takers there? Pat Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:49:21 -0600 From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones) Subject: Oxygen in wort, Lead in crystal AJ DeLange has the correct interpretation on oxgenation. That is, air will oxygenate water to 8.5 ppm, whereas oxygen will oxygenate water to 40 ppm, but it will eventually fall back to 8.5 ppm from being left in contact with air. However, there is one point we may be missing: How long does it take the 40 ppm to fall to 8.5 ppm, compared with how long it takes the yeast to uptake the O2? If the yeast can absorb the O2 fairly rapidly, and if this much O2 is indeed beneficial, then there may well be an advantage to using pure oxygen, AJ's argument notwithstanding. Any thoughts? Also, Steve (on the subject of lead in crystal) said: >Second: There ain't any lead there. Whoa there! What kind of ceramics are they teaching in the grad program there at Umass/Dartmouth? :) There is a great deal of lead in lead crystal, lead (as lead oxide) is what gives the crystal its high refractive index, or brilliance. When a crystal says "40% lead" or whatever, that's just what it means. Common sense tells us that this lead won't leach out, as it is too tightly bound in the glass matrix. However, I believe this is one area where common sense has been proven wrong, and it is somewhat dangerous to used leaded glass/crystal for long-term storage of food materials. Kelly Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 10:53:00 EST From: "Dulisse, Brian" <BBD4 at CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV> Subject: beer for wedding a friend of mine is getting married in july near hartford, ct. she does not want to serve megaswill beer at the reception, and so has negotiated with the caterer to select the beer brands herself. she would like to stick with things that are going to be in the sam adams/pete's wicked ale price range. does anyone from the northeast have some suggestions for regional beers/beers available in the hartford area ? e-mail preferred. thanks bd Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:26:02 +0000 From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net> Subject: Re-using hops Kirk Fleming ask about re-using a dry hop in the next batch for a bittering hop....... Kirk, you're not Scottish are you? ;^) I suppose it could be done but in your example... Cascades, they would more than likely not be a good candidate for a bittering hop as they tend to leave a more floral taste (best way I can explain it) when boiled for too long and I generally fault a beer in competition that displays that characteristic. Although, YMMV of course. I don't know if you read Noonans book on Scottish Ales but he states that as you only utilize ~ 30% of the available bittering acids, the hops may be and are being re-used in a second runnings beer. Now that's cheap! (er I mean thrifty!) - -- -Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... | leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! | Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb | Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:23:13 EDT From: Steven W. Schultz <swschult at cbda7.apgea.army.mil> Subject: Honey for Priming FWIW: I've used honey for priming (5g batch) a few times, and have used 1/2 cup with pretty good results. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 11:49:13 EDT From: CGEDEN at NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU Subject: subspace info There has been some discussion in recent days about how most of the info on HBD is concentrated in a few, relatively prolific, posters. This is true, but there is also a great deal of information passed by private email resulting from a public posting. It has been my experience that there are many people listening who are willing to share their wisdom and insights, but prefer the less visible medium of private email. We are like the Borg; our collective wisdom goes considerably beyond its most visible manifestations. Although it would be impossible to measure, I would bet that each issue of HBD generates at least twice as much additional information that is passed privately. Chris Geden Brewer, Listener, Entomologist Gainesville, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:55:59 PDT From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com> Subject: Need for Secondary In HBD 1696 Thomas Aylesworth responded to my queries about a secondary fermenter and closed with... > In summary, I think beginning ale brewers should keep it simple. Don't > bother with a secondary until you've mastered/improved other techniques, > unless you have problems (like autolysis) that you know would go away > if you racked. I did end up racking off to a secondary. The reason for this was that the fermentation was slowing down and I would not have the opportunity to bottle over the next 3-4 days. The ale was brewed with hop pellets, as a result the primary had a healthy layer of sludge in the bottom (beyond the yeast cake). I racked the beer Friday evening and will probably bottle tonight. One thing I did notice was that within 24 hours of racking there was no more bubbling in the airlock. Is that normal? On another note, I wanted to offer the general public a warning about cheap carboy substitutes. Late saturday afternoon I was making a throw together dark german ale (defies style), with unused ingredients that I had accumulated over the past 6 months. After the cooled wort was in my carboy, I needed to aerate it. In the past I have always done the "carboy jig". Rolling it around the floor, picking it up and shaking it, swinging it by the handle then back to rolling it. Never had a problem until saturday. Three months ago I was rumaging around a flea market and found a glass terrarium that was "in essence" a 5 gallon carboy. I got the thing for 5 bucks. Saturday was the first time I had a chance to try it out and I found that it differed from a normal carboy in one small area. Instead of being a single piece of glass, it was two sides that were fused together. Well to make a long story short... Upon the very first roll, it cracked at one of the seams and my entire laundry room/work room was awash in 5 gallons of dark sticky wort and glass shards. After the glass broke I discovered another difference from a regular carboy. The glass thickness was only 1/8". Well after 8 hours of clean-up and a bought of depression, my basement is back to normal (less one cheap at #$#! at #!!%$$# substitute carboy). Be forewarned... when cruising the flea markets and yard sales for potential homebrewing goodies, buying cheap does not necessarily save money! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ : "There are only two things in life that oooooo : : we can ever be certain of... _oooooooo : : ...taxes and beer!" /_| oooooo : : Cheers, // | ooo : : Rob Emenecker \\_| oo | : : remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker) \_| o| : : Cadmus Journal Services, Inc. |______| : +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:00:54 -0500 From: dharsh at alpha.che.uc.edu (Dr. David C. Harsh) Subject: O2 vs. Air "The final word; My mistake" There's been a lot of discussion here as a result of my initial post with regard to what you should aerate with. Obviously, my conehead was on a little tight because I clearly was _wrong_ about pressure effects of gas solubility! So let me clear things up with this post. 1. Yes, you can increase solubility by increasing partial pressure of aerating gas. Also, the equilibrium amount absorbed is roughly linear with concentration in the gas phase. 2. If you are going to aerate with oxygen, make sure you don't expose the wort to the atmosphere or all that extra oxygen will come back out of solution since the equilibrium concentration with air (20.9% oxygen) is lower that that obtained from exposure to pure oxygen. {maybe this is what I was thinking} To slightly change the subject: 3. I have heard claims (second hand) that increased oxygen content can cause oxidation of the wort, and this could be a problem. At 20 C, solubility of oxygen in chlorine free water in contact with air is reported at 9.09 ppm. Exposure to pure oxygen would result in maximum solubility of 43.49 ppm [(9.09/.209)]. Solubility of oxygen in water at 50 C exposed to air is 5.47 ppm. Granted, the temperature effect oxidation reactions is usually much greater than concentration, but at 80 C the solubility is reduced to 5.3 ppm. My point? If 80 C and 5.3 ppm O2 will oxidize your wort, so might 20 C and 43.49 ppm O2. (Solubility data from "Standard Methods for the Examination of Water and Wastewater") We need kinetic data (activation energy) to be sure about whether oxidation from pure oxygen aeration is a problem, and I'm not sure the reactions are so readily quantified and measured. The only data I have is for super-critical liquid phase combustion, where rate depends on the organic concentration only. Over a 50 C range, the rate constants change by anything from a factor of 2 to a factor of 20 (increasing at higher temperatures). Even at the maximum reduction in rate (4-nitrophenol oxidized to CO2), we could see oxidation. Below critical conditions, oxygen concentration will affect rate and the eight-fold increase in oxygen solubility would result in oxidation at about one third the rate in hot wort. Does anybody have any applicable data? Even if pressure isn't supposed to affect liquid phase rate constants much, I hesitate to draw any direct conclusion. Finally, I still don't like using Henry's law constants for gas solubility. The definition of Henry's constant is based on a vapor-liquid equilbrium model, not a dissolved gas, so this is not a rigorously correct approach. I know it is widely used and works, so I'll disagree quietly on this topic (turn off your flamethrowers!). SUMMARY: Aerating with oxygen increases dissolved oxygen, but may increase the rate of oxidation reactions. Without kinetic data to be sure of the temperature effects of oxidation reactions, oxygenate to high solubility at your own wort's risk. Now relax. Dave Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:05:25 -0400 From: garyf at idirect.com (Gary Flock) Subject: Disaster looking for a place to happen! Re HBD 1694 MK asked about Propane cooker INDOORS. It is impossible to OVEREMPHASIZE how dangerous this act is. Propane (as I'm sure everyone knows) is heavier than air, unlike natural gas (methane) and if, heaven forbid, you have a minute leak at one of the connections, will travel to the lowest part of the house. If you have a sump pump for example, it will find it and sit there. Now, let's say that you brew once a week: a small leak (say 0.5 cuft) per brew. Four weeks later it rains heavily, sump pump turns on and BOOM house is gone! I personally know of one such incident where a teen brought his 20lb propane tank (which had run out during barbequeing) into the house as a short cut to the front yard. The phone rang and he spent 20-30 minutes on the phone. When he went back downstairs to retrieve the tank, he turned on the light switch and levelled the house. He is lucky to be alive, however is crippled for life. In HBD 1696 R.E. mentions having the fire insuance paid up: The policies/laws here in the great white north may differ from those in the U.S. but my house insurance policy immediately becomes null and void the moment you bring a propane tank indoors. (exlcuding those used for small portable torches). I currently use an 86,000 btu propane cooker (outdoors) and was about to make a batch this past winter. The temp. outside was about 35 below F. and just couldn't immagine standing out there for 90 minutes. I broke down and set the burner up in the laundry room (on the sink supported by a 2ft square patio stone). Being paranoid as hell about propane, I placed the tank outside and ran the hose through the window which was kept wide open during the boil. I soaped all of the connections and found two minor leaks (in places that I never thought would) and corrected them. I then made 5 gal. of "NERVOUS LAGER" awaiting the big Kaboom! In order to avoid an ulcer, I have returned to outdoor boiling. Next winter I hope to own a natural gas cooker which I'm told can be picked up (used) for around $150.00. I hope this helps, respectfully.......propane paranoia Gary R. Flock AKA Garth Oakville, Ontario, Canada. -------garyf at idirect.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 14:57:28 EDT From: Jay Rustine <jrustine at hns.com> Subject: North Carolina Concerns I am a neophyte homebrewer who is being considered for a position in Wilmington, North Carolina. Not being familiar with that area at all, I am concerned as to whether or not: a) Homebrewing is legal there. b) There are any good homebrew supply stores nearby. If anyone reading this is from that area or familiar with it, I would appreciate some insight. You can e-mail to me privately at: jrustine at hns.com Thanks, Jay Rustine, jrustine at hns.com Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 15:17:06 EDT From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com Subject: RE: Mitch's Red Beers Looks like we caught the self-appointed "Brewing Chemist" RED-HANDED| But here's another one to add to the list: For an American Corn/Rice Swill: RED HYDRANT. It brings the canine theme back to "red" beers _AND_ accurately describes the brew. Now go have a beer, Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap at ibmmail.com - ---THE INTERNET: Hardwiring the neurons of the global brain:--- One geek at a time.... - --------------------------------------------------------------- Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:41:57 -0700 From: danpack at grape-ape.che.caltech.edu (Dan Pack) Subject: cold/hot break....chill haze Hi all. I'm a newbie who's been reading the digest since about Jan. I've gotten a tremendous amount of extremely useful information from this forum so far so I'd just like to say thanks to everyone and keep up the good work. But now it's time for me to come out of lurking and ask a specific question. Actually two questions. I recently made an immersion chiller out of 50' of 3/8 in. OD copper tubing. Cools my wort (partial boil approx 3 1/2 gal) to pitching temp. in under 15 minutes with stirring. (Yes stirring makes a BIG difference in how fast the wort cools). Anyway, I've used this on my last two batches the latest being yesterday. I get a HUGE cold break as expected. On the last batch I poured through a strainer into my carboy hoping the (whole) hops would act as a filter but essentially all the break ended up in the bottom of the fermenter. This resulted in quite a bit of lost beer as I tried to leave as much of the gunk behing when racking to secondary. For the current batch I tried the *whirlpool* technique. What I did was stir the cold wort in a circular motion to set up the whirlpool and then let the break settle for 15 min. I then tried to rack from the side of the pot with a copper racking cane with a copper *scrubby* stuck on the end to keep out large chunks of goo. Well this didn't work for beans. The wort coming through the siphon was filled with break material and the scrubby clogged up quickly making the siphon run VERY slowly. So my question is, what did I miss? Is there some trick to making this work? In the future should I just rack the wort to a second carboy after allowing the trub to settle ala Miller? I still lose a lot of beer/wort this way. This brings me to my next question. My biggest problem (IMO) currently is chill haze. Every beer I've ever brewed (about 15 batches) has had this problem, even the last batch in which I used the chiller for the first time (of course since all of the break material made it into the carboy...) Anyway, as I mentioned before I use only partial boils. I use 2 tsp. irish moss added 20 min. before end of boil. (For my current batch I re-hydrated the irish moss the night before) But I have never seen the hot break (egg drop soup as some have described it). Could the lack of hot break be the reason for my chill haze. Is removing the break material (see first question) important for eliminating the haze? How does water chemistry (Ca, pH) effect chill haze? I'm thinking of fining with gelatin on this batch. Can I expect any improvement? Wow! Sorry for the long post but I know if anyone can answer these questions it's the collective wisdom of the digest. Thanks. Dan Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:47:57 -0400 From: jeaster at nr.infi.net (Jeff Easter) Subject: Ale vs Lager Yeasts in Bruce and Kays.... I know I have seen this discussion elsewhere, but I'll be darned if I can find it now that I need it. I am making a batch of Bruce and Kays Honey Spruce Lager, but it seems the fermentation has all but stopped, just a little over 30 hours since it started. I pitched two packets of M & F Ale yeast, at 72 degrees, and I am wondering what to do now. Any help out there? Thanks, Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 18:50:56 EDT From: andy2 at hogpa.ho.att.com (Andrew J Donohue) Subject: honey priming/new counterflow chiller Several posters are considering priming with honey. I have done this on several occasions with success. Only use 1/2 cup (or less) for proper carbonation. It will take longer for carbonation than corn sugar and you won't get any noticable honey character, in my experience. With the warmer tap water of summer coming up, I just put together a counterflow chiller. Th whole thing took less than an hour to construct. I threaded 25' of 3/8 copper through 23' of 5/8 hose using only H20 as a lubricant. Then I drilled 3/8 hole in 2 metal hose elbow connections. I threaded the elbows over the copper pipe and patched the connection with Goop. That's it! Andy Donohue andy2 at hogpe.ho.att.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:35:51 +0000 (WET) From: "Harold R. Wood" <hrwood at uog9.uog.edu> Subject: mail order - HopTech and others I would like to make a few comments regarding the recent activity about mail ordering and HopTech. I live on Guam, a small island in the Western Pacific - north of Australia, south of Japan, east of the Philippines and west of a whole lot of water. All of my homebrew acquisitions are obtained via mail order. Everything. Malt, hops, yeast, carboys, caps, books - everything. Because of this I am quite interested in HBD comments regarding mailorder. Good reports might induce me to try a new supplier. Bad reports might induce me to not try a supplier. Currently, my favorite suppliers are South Bay Homebrew Supply (Torrance, Ca), HopTech (Pleasanton, CA) and The Beverage People (Fulton, CA). I also like Brewers Resource (Camarillo, CA). There have been an occasional error in filling my orders. (I occasionally make an error!) I would like to see mail order reports continue (positive and negative). However, I hope that each error is not reported upon. A single bad experience should not be the subject of the HBD. HopTech is one of my most reliable suppliers. They have a nice catalog, they ship rapidly, they have good products. In short, I have no qualms about recommending them. Just to add some balance. Rick Wood Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 01:55:00 UTC From: t.duchesneau at genie.geis.com Subject: Racking to secondary There has been some discussion lately on the need to rack ales to secondary, but they have missed the most important point. Racking to secondary frees the primary to brew again. ;-) ...Tom Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 00:43 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Homebrew archives ===> Rob Emenecker asks about ftp sites: >Does anyone know of a source listing FTP sites relating to beer, homebrewing, >zymurgy, etc. Please let me know. Thanks! Check out the homebrew archives at ftp.stanford.edu in the directory /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:02:46 -0400 From: TPuskar at aol.com Subject: Contaminated batch Well, it has finally happened! After about a dozen batches, I have succeeded in making my first batch of contaminated gushers. I'm glad I got it over with early in my career! My question is, what went wrong? I am usually quite anal about sanitation-go through bleach like water. All equipment went through my standard sanitation. I did use a yeast which I cultured on plates and slants from a Wyeast American packet used for a previous batch. The slants looked good with no apparent contamination. The contaminated batch (as evidenced by the "ring around the collar" effect and gushing upon openeing) was a part of an experiment to check the effect of 2 different yeasts. The batch was brewed as a 6 gallon batch and split into two 3 gallon batches. I did use some plastic fermentors (buckets) I got from the local bakery dept of my supermarket. Again, they were cleaned and sanitiz ed as I normally treat my glass stuff. The other portion of the batch is not contaminated. It was pitched with London yeast also from a homemade slant. With all that said, I know I'll never really find out where the contamination came from, I've got a few questions for the collective wisdom. 1. The beer doesn't really taste that bad--is it safe to drink or should I dump it, scrub the hell out of the bottles and move on? 2. Is it possible that there were clues along the way that I missed that would have told me I got a bad one? To me everything looked fine. 3. Since I used two different buckets (three if you count the bottling bucket) for the primary and secondary, I figure sanitation was the problem. Maybe that old "scratched plastic can't be cleaned" issue that comes up every so often. 4. Without a microscope I can't really check my slant. I'm planning to streak a new plate and see if it comes up clean. Any other suggestions for checking the yeast? Should I pitch it out and start a new pack for my next brew? 5. Did I just push my luck with liquid transfer? The batch went through several siphonings and pourings--more than usual--and some of which took place in my basement--not the cleanest place around. Any comments would be appreciated. Post here for the common good or private is OK too. I think I'll stop this experimenting crap and go back to my glass carboys. TIA Tom Puskar Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:02:49 -0400 From: TPuskar at aol.com Subject: Glass carboys--big ones This may be of local interest to NJ-NY-PA-DE brewers due to shipping costs. A guy in central Jersey has about 50 *large* glass carboys, 13.5 gallon size, which are up for grabs. He got them when cleaning out a warehouse and is unsure of their history. They are reasonably clean and in good shape. My guess is that they contained acids or some such chemicals. Some of them are over 40 years old and may be of value as collectables as well. His prices are negotiable and start around $30-$40. I picked up one--boy they are big--didn't look that big when sitting on his front lawn! They might be of interest to the large volume guys (gals) out there who have boilin g pots that complement this size fermentor. If there is any interest, send Email and I'll provide more info. Tom Puskar Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 8:56:49 EDT From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbda9.apgea.army.mil> Subject: Honey Beer Revisited Honey Brews Revisited I brewed a honey brown..... "Motor City Madhouse Ale" in June 94. I used 8 pounds of English 2-row, 1 pound of wheat, 2 1/2 pounds of clover honey, 1 oz Willamette, 1 oz of hallertau, Irish moss, gelatin in the 2nd, and WYeast 1007. The mash schedule was: 95 degrees for 15 minutes (Acid Rest) 122 degrees for 30 minutes (Protein Rest) 152 degrees for 45-60 minutes (until passed iodine test) The OG was 1.064, and the FG was 1.010 . That's 7.09% A by V. While this beer did have some honey character, the alcohol taste was stronger. I don't think creating a brew so high in alcohol that the yeast quit, thereby giving the honey flavor is the way to go. I think we just need to find a good yeast that will leave some of the honey profile. This one did mellow a bit, but was not one of my better beers. I just recently brewed a honey beer from canned malt..... Don't remember the specifics but it was something like 3.3 pounds liquid malt extract, 2 1/2 pounds clover honey and other goodies...... I again used WYeast 1007, this time is was 3 times removed from the packet. It fermented everything. I now have a very pleasant brew, but no honey profile. One side note..... I don't know if it's because of the honey, but the brews I have used it in all seem to be a bit more clear. Then again, it could just be the gelatin!!! I'm getting married this Saturday so I guess I'll become Mr Emery.... or was that my dad... Kevin Emery North East, MD "Women are a lot like a beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd walk all over your mother just to get one!" Homer....... Simpson Return to table of contents
Date: 04 Apr 1995 09:18:17 -0500 (EST) From: DUBOVIK at hsdwl.utc.com Subject: Is lager still good? I brewed a lager (extract) with Wyeast liquid least. After about a week of very nice fermenting in the primary (at about 65 deg F), I transfered it over to the secondary (at about 50 deg F). Well, due to work, and projects (all the wife's) around the house, over 2 months has passed and it's still in there. Is it still good ("Lagering" at 50 deg) for 2 months, or is it tree fertilizer. If it's still good, should I get my ass in gear and bottle now (and do I need to add more yeast). TIA (Oh sorry, that's getting to be taboo on this and other lists!) Responses will be greatly appreciated and possibly acknowledged (If my wife does'nt have more "Oh honey" projects around the house) Gary J. Dubovik Aerospace (Still Employeed!!) Engineer DUBOVIK at hsdwl.utc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 95 08:56:31 CST From: "Yunke, Pat" <YUNKE at MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU> Subject: Road Trip Info Request - Clearwater & Louisville I will be traveling to Clearwater Florida and Louisville Kentucky in the near future and I would like information on local Micro's and brew pubs in those two locations. Please include any pertinent information including specialty brews avaliable. If they have any LARGE brews also let me know. I have a preference for BIG beers. Personal E-Mail is fine. Send info to: yunke at music.lib.matc.edu Thanks for your help. - Pat Yunke Pat Yunke Instructor E-Mail: YUNKE at MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU Tool & Die Making Milwaukee Area Technical College Phone: (414) 238-2223 Mequon, WI 53092 Fax: (414) 238-2380 Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 07:43:47 -0700 From: stephenm at netcom.com (Stephen Meredith) Subject: Sam Adams Double Bock Fellow Brewers, I just tried Sam Adams Double Bock. I liked it, but is this beer true-to-style? I'd like to make a double bock. There are a few recipes in Cats Meow. Can anybody recommend one of those, or have a better one (extract)? -Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:59:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Brewpub recipes and posting compet. Jay says: <This is just a quick request/reminder to refrain from posting competition <results in the HBD (we've been over this before). I like it. Skip over it if you dont. Theres lots of stuff in the HBD that wont appeal to everyone. Its not of only local interest in these days where people enter all over the country. Jack asks: <His question is whether or not glass-lined hot water heaters can be <adapted to use as fermenters. This is an April fools joke , right? If not, someone needs to do some research on brewing. Andy asks: <He is also brewer at a local pub-brewery, and is getting an Internet <connection <real soon. I have told him about the HBD and the collective wisdom, <and he is <interested, but unsure if it has adequate "focus" for him. He has a <few questions, snip on the SNPA, Liberty and Orval questions. Since he is a paid brewer, why should we give away recipes on some hard to make styles, so he can make money on em? Shouldnt a pro brewer who wants this have to pay something for it? OK, SNPA and Liberty are no brainers, but Orval...... If its references he wants, Id be happy to do some consulting for him. Jim Busch Colesvill, Md busch at mews.gsfc.nasa.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 10:09:00 PDT From: Rob Emenecker <robe at cadmus.com> Subject: Priming with Light DME The amount of posts regarding priming with honey on the HBD is unbelievable. Can anyone tell me why there is a sudden upturn in priming with honey. I just switched over to using M&F Light DME (1.25c/5.0gal). Are all of you folks swithing over from using corn sugar to honey, DME to honey, or what? I would like to hear some chatter about people's experiences with priming with DME! +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ : "There are only two things in life that oooooo : : we can ever be certain of... _oooooooo : : ...taxes and beer!" /_| oooooo : : Cheers, // | ooo : : Rob Emenecker \\_| oo | : : remenecker at cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker) \_| o| : : Cadmus Journal Services, Inc. |______| : +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1698, 04/05/95