HOMEBREW Digest #2013 Wed 17 April 1996

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	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Light-skunked beer. Starter question (PAUL RYBAK)
  Light-skunked beer. Starter question (PAUL RYBAK)
  Advice needed on incorporating homebrew club ("Michael R. Swan")
  The elusive 5/8 garden hose (Mitch Hogg)
  re: 'Dating Wyeast Packs' ("Herb B Tuten")
  DMS + H2S, yeast or malt ? (Steve Alexander)
  Gottemp, skunks, punks, and monks. (Russell Mast)
  CO2 bottle security ("Gregory, Guy J.")
  Prohibition and Religion (guym)
  Stuck Prime / Flat Beer (Brian S Kuhl)
  Flavenoids? (Russell Mast)
  Maine 'Que & Brew Festival (Kit Anderson)
  Open Ferm (RUSt1d?)
  Freezing Yeast Question (Tim Martin)
  Water (John Wilkinson)
  Where To Get Cool Tap Handles ("Clark D. Ritchie")
  Parlor CIty contest results (Btalk)
  Wort Chillers (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
  CO2 Tanks (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
  Carbonation Question (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
  Re:Re:Bottle Washing (KDDrakes)
  Installing beer taps in chest freezers (Robert Bullard)
  delurking (DOUGWEISER)
  prohibition story (Robert Rogers)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 07:08:00 From: PERSAND at gnn.com (PAUL RYBAK) Subject: Light-skunked beer. Starter question With all the talk of light-skunked beer, does this mean I can't take a pitcher of lager out to my pool in daylight? Also, why shouldn't lager starters be made a lagering temperatures? Thanks, Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 07:13:11 From: PERSAND at gnn.com (PAUL RYBAK) Subject: Light-skunked beer. Starter question With all the talk of light-skunked beer, does this mean I can't take a pitcher of lager out to my pool in daylight? Also, why shouldn't lager starters be made a lagering temperatures? Thanks, Paul Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 8:12:25 EDT From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan at fdic.gov> Subject: Advice needed on incorporating homebrew club I have been looking into preparing the documents to incorporate a homebrew club as a non-profit, tax exempt organization. I read a few of the articles about this on the AHA web site but still have some questions. Has anyone out there incorporated their club within the last few years? The state incorporation documents are fairly straightforward. The tricky part is getting the IRS to issue an "exemption letter." Apparently, the IRS is picky about the "purpose statement" of the club contained in its articles of incorporation. If anyone has been successful in obtaining this exemption letter from the IRS, I would greatly appreciate if you could email me your purpose statement and related documents. Thanks in advance. Mike Swan Dallas, Texas USA (I'm a lawyer but not a corporate lawyer) mswan at fdic.gov goldswan at cyberramp.net Standard disclaimers apply Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:26:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Mitch Hogg <bu182 at freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: The elusive 5/8 garden hose Please forgive me for what I know is a very regional question, but I'm hoping those who don't live in Toronto will treat it like yet another request for a brewpub in [insert city you where don't live here] and simply scroll past. There, now that they've all gone, I've got a question for brewers in Toronto. I'm in the process of making a counterflow chiller, and have the copper pipe and the Phil's Phittings. What I can't find is the 5/8 inch garden hose. I thought it would be easy, but it seems the skinny little 1/2 inch has become the industry standard, and there are no 5/8 to be found. Over the last few weeks, I've gone to Canadian Tire, Wal-Mart, various Home Hardwares, and every mom n' pop hardware store I've happened by. Nothing doing, and I'm getting desperate. Please, if anyone knows a source for 5/8 hose in Toronto, let me know, wouldja? Alternately, if anyone has cobbled together a workable chiller from 1/2 inch hose, I'd be interested in hearing from you too, because if it does work, I know plenty of sources for _that_ stuff. Thanks. BTW, it has to be a garden hose, not just some tubing of the appropriate diameter, because the hose's threaded tap fittings are needed for the chiller. Thanks again, Mitch. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:08:43 -0500 From: "Herb B Tuten" <herb at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us> Subject: re: 'Dating Wyeast Packs' In HBD 2010, Tim Martin posted about "Dating Wyeast Packs". I was in a hurry and only skimmed the post, something about '38-D cup' and 'will I love it?'. Tim, you have many fine qualities, and I'm sure there are many lovely micro-organisms who would love to go out with you. Don't sell yourself short and date Wyeast for cup size. Oh sure, a swelling smack-pack is a quick thrill. We've all been there. Don't overlook M&F ale yeast or Red Star or Edme. They're all attractive and should offer stimulating companionship for a fine brewer such as yourself. Wish I could offer more help, but I only had a chance to scan the post quickly. ;-) Cheers, Herb herb at zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:36:28 -0400 From: Steve Alexander <stevea at clv.mcd.mot.com> Subject: DMS + H2S, yeast or malt ? Rob Reed writes ... >Michael writes: > >> It immediatly struck me that this "sulfury note" is what seems to be missing >> from _my_ beers, as well as many domestic interpretations of bavarian styles >> I have tasted. >> >> The characteristic "rotten egg" smell has been noticably missing >> from my fermentations. Moreover, my lagers have tended to be somewhat >> under-attenuated, FG usually falling on the low side or just below the >> mfgrs stated attenuation range for the yeast. > >I don't think it's the H2S that gives continental lagers that malty, >sulfury character. Due to lower temperature kilning, quality lager >malt produces noticable amounts dimethyl sulfide - DMS - some of which >ends up in the finished beer. This is one of the primary differences >between ales and lagers. You didn't mention what malt you're using, but >I like Durst (1) or DeWolf-Cosyns (2) Pils malt for my lagers. > >I notice a fairly strong sulfur aroma from lagers at racking, but several >weeks/months in the secondary allows much of the undesirable components >to out gas. Tho' it's undoubtedly true that the malting conditions are responsible for the available DMS, it's also quite true that different yeasts produce vastly different amounts of H2S. I've made many ales from Breiss 2-row - usually using Wyeast 1028 without a wiff of rotten egg smell, but when using the same malt and Wyeast 2308 it's sulphur city. As the smell dissipates it seems to leave a sharp, crisp edge and a characteristic full aroma, which admitedly may be due to other factors than the H2S. Stevea Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 10:17:54 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Gottemp, skunks, punks, and monks. > From: NParker at Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker) > Subject: Gott temperature variation > > I got a temperature range > of 5degC(9degF) (62 to 67degC) from top to bottom of the grain bed on a worst > case measurement. Two points arose from this measurement: > 1. I obviously have to mix the mash well before measuring the temperature > to get a good average tmeperature and You should mix the mash real well once per decoction/infusion/whatever.. After that, the temperature should be pretty consistent throughout and pretty stable. > 2. Should I stir the mash every 10 min or so to keep the temperature more > uniform? That's unnecessary and probably not a good idea. Also, when you stir, you may notice that steam rises from the grain bed. That's a sign of heat loss from your mash. 9 deg F is a huge difference. Are you keeping the lid of the Gott on during the mash? That's what it's there for, after all. Without that, it's not much better than a plastic bucket. My first guess would be that your thermometers are either different "speeds" or not calibrated well. I have three or four thermometers, maybe more, and they all tend to give the same readings, though one always shows a couple degrees cooler than the others. More importantly, one is much slower reacting than the rest. (Those metal-dial ones are speedy.) Anyway, if you put this slow one and another in the mash and read after 20 seconds, it will look 10 or more degrees cooler. CLose it up, walk away, come back after 2-3 minutes and they match pretty close. As for what effects a temperature gradient will have on your mash... I dunno, I guess it'd be like mashing some of it at one temp and some at another. > From: Kathy Booth <kbooth at isd.ingham.k12.mi.us> > Subject: lagering skunky beer > > Brian Pickerill asks about lagering skunky beer. > > I intentionally placed several bottles of Bud in a sunny window > to create light struck beer for the club to taste. after 5 days it was > indeed skunky. I left one bottle there for 4 weeks and when I opened it > for a friend to show what skunky beer was, it wasn't. Apparently, > skunkiness is a phase in a set of reactions with sunlight (or time) that > passes. Cheers Jim Booth, Lansing, MI No sir. Most big commercial breweries treat their beer to make it immune to skunking. I forget if they add a chemical or remove one, but they prevent that reaction from taking place. > From: Rob Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> > Subject: DMS and Skunked Hops > This brings up an important concern: do I need to worry about my > coriander getting skunked while its growing, i.e. is my beer ruined? I find that dipping the seeds in a little mercury before you plant them really helps keep your coriander from being skunked. (Use you bare hands.) > From: jfrane at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) > Subject: Re: bottle baking > Russell Mast: > > > >Yes. It will weaken the strength of your bottles. > Well the responses are certainly authoritative. Nee nee nee NEE nee nee. > But, if this is true > why is it that in approximately 10 years of brewing and santizing bottles > in the oven, I've never broken a single bottle? Inquiring minds want > to know. 1) You bake your bottles more carefully than I did, and 2) you started with stronger bottles than I did. I think I made it pretty clear in my post that I was using cheap weak bottles and letting them cool down too fast. I find it pretty hard to believe you've never broken a single bottle - I know a lot of bleach sanitizers who've had a broken bottle or two now and then. > I have found this method to be the easiest, simplest, and most > time-effective method for sanitizing bottles: I find just rinsing them works pretty well, too. Honest. > For me, the great advantage is that I can break the process up into > manageable lumps. I can wash one day, sanitize another day, and fill > yet another day. No hassles, and no exploding bottles. But, you have to decide three days in advance when you're going to bottle a batch. That works for a lot of people, but not for me. I usually would bake the bottles only a few hours in advance. That's real bad. > From: krkoupa at ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM > Subject: Skunky > > "We don't have skunks in England. I always wondered what you > Americans were talking about." I thought they use the term "catty" over there. > From: "Dave Hinkle" <Dave.Hinkle at aexp.com> > Subject: prohibition exceptions > Any members of other faiths know of exceptions made on their behalf? Makes > sense, considering that certain Native American Tribes here in the SW can > still grow and use peyote for religious purposes. Separation of church and > state and all that... Can they still? I read some recent cases, in Utah I believe, where some folks were prosecuted for possession. I'm not positive which nation, I think Ute. Either way, the religious exception for Catholics during Prohibition was on First Amendment grounds, I think. -R Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 09:10:00 PDT From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461 at eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov> Subject: CO2 bottle security Art McGregor has a kegging question in HBD 2012: "... securing the CO2 tank. Does anyone have a simple, but effective way to make sure the CO2 tank won't fall over, which could cause the valve to bust off, thus sending the tank off like a rocket thru the house? What I might do is build a wooden box that is a little bit larger than the diameter of the tank and then bolt the box to the concrete floor, then put CO2 tank inside of wood box. If there is a simpler method I would like to know." OK...I have 2. First, I put my tank in a 5 gallon plastic bucket, saved from a failed attempt at constructing a Zapap lauter tun. It holds my 5 lb CO2 bottle and regulator quite nicely. Second, I have a small diameter bungee cord wrapped around the bottle just below the valve. When the bottle isn't in the bucket, it is bungee'd ever so slightly to some table leg or other object so that dogs and kids and clumsy adults like me don't kick it over accidentally. It seems to take only a little effort and forethought to protect everybody from this potentially very dramatic problem. The box is good, but these are cheap, portable, and handy...and you can do either one now, before you turn your computer off. Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 11:06:15 MDT From: guym at Exabyte.COM Subject: Prohibition and Religion Dave H writes: > There WERE in fact exceptions made regarding the prohibition laws. <snip> > Any members of other faiths know of exceptions made on their behalf? > Makes sense, considering that certain Native American Tribes here in the > SW can still grow and use peyote for religious purposes. Separation of > church and state and all that... It also goes a long way toward explaining the increase in conversion to Rastafarianism as well, don't you think? Oh, a beer related comment? How 'bout that Dragon Stout?! Any truth to the rumor that one of the bittering agents in that black gold is Ganja? -- Guy McConnell /// Huntersville, NC /// guym at exabyte.com "So I put on my Bob Marley tape and practice what I preach..." Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 09:37:00 PDT From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl at ccm.fm.intel.com> Subject: Stuck Prime / Flat Beer Hi HBers, I just got to try a few bottles of my second batch of extract brew! Unfortunately and unlike my first good batch, I am having flat beer problems in SOME bottles and not in others of the same batch. I am puzzled but would like to question the group for ideas. I think maybe I stopped the yeast in an 80 degree room. The only other thing I can think of is the bleach not being completely rinsed (I rinsed three times). Specifics: Brewers Choice American Ale II Prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar OG: 1.054 FG: 1.014 Primary carboy 1 week Secondary carboy 2 weeks Carboys were kept between 68-70 degrees and were active until bottling Bottle caps of opened bottles were not apparently damaged Thanks for any and all help! CU Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 11:55:03 -0500 From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com> Subject: Flavenoids? There is an article in today's Chicago Tribune (4/16/96 section 1, p 12) that describes research of John Folts at University Wisconson at Madison, and implies that "dark beer may prevent heart disease". Which is cool with me, but the level of technical detail of the article is pretty shabby. For instance, it says "That's because particles called wort are removed earlier in the processing of light-colored beer". That's the tribune's writing up of an AP wire's paraphrase of the researcher, hopefully pretty far from Folts' original words. Anyway, the meat of it says "Like red wine and grape juice, dark beer contains vitamin-like compounds called flavenoids that inhibit platelet activity in the blood, making it less sticky and less likely to clog arteries." It also mentions that black tea and many fruits and vegetables are rich in flavenoids, and that coffee is low in flavenoids. Okay, perfesser, what are flavenoids, and how do they get in beer? Somehow, "particles called wort" doesn't do it for me. Are these melanoidens, tannins, or something totally different? Is it really a dark/light distinction, or is there more/less to it? Inquiring minds want to know. Anyone know some facts about this? This Folts guy is the same one who, in 1974, showed that aspirin was good for treating heart disease, again by slowing platelet activity. They have one direct quote from him "We're not suggesting people go out and drink beer or other alcoholic beverages. They may be better off drinking tea, grape juice or eating fruits and vegetables." Well - I'm suggesting you go out and drink beer. (Or stay home and drink beer. That's fine, too.) -Russell Mast Copyright 1996 Jeff Frane Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:00:54 -0400 From: Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com> Subject: Maine 'Que & Brew Festival The First Annual Maine 'Que & Brew Festival is on for May 11 & 12 at Thomas Point Beach in Brunswick, Maine. There will be homebrewing demonstrations and a competition, BBQ demonstrations and competitions, music, Maine microbreweries, flyfishing, and cigars. See the Maine Beer Page http://www.maine.com/brew for more info. - --- Kit Anderson <kit at maine.com> Bath, Maine The Maine Beer Page http://www.maine.com/brew Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 13:23:58 -0400 From: RUSt1d? <rust1d at swamp.li.com> Subject: Open Ferm >I'm am considering using my converted keg hot-liquor tank as a >(partially?) open fermentation vessle and am looking for some hints >and suggestions from those that have done this before. Primarily, I >am wondering how much yeast sediment to expect. I would like to use >the existing tap welded just above the lower chine to empty the keg >when fermentation is complete. I was wondering if I should place an >upward pointing tube on the backside of this spigot so that it is not >submerged by the trub and yeast sediment. Thanks for any and all >suggestions! This works great for me. Before filling, put a pint of water into the keg, cover with a lid and put a flame under it for a couple of minutes. This will sanitize it nicely with steam (leave the valve at the bottom open during this and it should get blasted as well). Pitch the yeast and cover the keg with a trash bag. A couple of days later, skim the hops/trub/yeast that rises up, and then skim again a couple of days later (save this second skimming for pitching into next batch). Skimming will serve to reduce the final amount of sediment enough so you can use the valve to drain to your secondary. Hope this helps. John Varady Boneyard Brewing ************************** ** rust1d at li.com ** ** John Nicholas Varady ** <-- Now Engaged. ** Eve Courtney Hoyt ** ************************** http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:22:12 -0300 From: Tim Martin <TimM at southwest.cc.nc.us> Subject: Freezing Yeast Question Hey Neighbors, This weekend I wanted to try and freeze yeast in glycerine for the first time so I slipped down to my friend Revco drug store to pick up a bottle of glycerine. After locating the bottle and reading the contents it had the word "emollient", a skin softener, for external use only on the label. On the back it gave the 1-800 phone number for the National Poison Control Center. Needles to say I didn't buy it. My question is... is this the right stuff, if not what is or should I bag glycerine and use sugar as a few people have posted? All help is appreciated. TIA Tim Martin Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:49:53 -0500 From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins at imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> Subject: Water Still more water questions. I had a water analysis done on my two wells with the following results: Well #1 Well #2 ppm ppm _______ _______ Calcium 1 28 Magnesium 1 1 Sodium 18 8 Potassium 2 4 Bi-carbonate 8 77 Sulfate 9 6 Chloride 24 12 pH 5.4 6.6 Total Cations 22 41 Total Anions 41 95 Total ppm 63 136 Percent Sodium I am not sure yet what it all means, but one thing I wondered about was something A.J. DeLange said in hbd #2011 about calcium being necessary in mashing to allow the grains to bring the water pH down. Since my pH is already low on well #1, whose water I usually use, is this a concern to me? The few times I have tested my mash pH it was in the 5.0-5.4 area, I think. I have added gypsum when doing ales, although blindly before I got the results of the water test. I was going by hardness test strips indicating soft water. Would this lower pH even more or does the low calcium level prevent this? I was adding gypsum to the kettle after the sparge. I would think well #1 water would be best for pilsners and #2 for ales, if I treated neither. Is it practical or even worthwhile to add salts to try to approximate the water of the location of the beer style I am brewing? ******************************************************************************* On another subject, Kirk Fleming was commenting in the same issue on extraction efficiency. I think I see his point about the difference between extraction efficiency and system efficiency, but I find it most useful to me to compute my efficiency on the amount of grain used and the volume of wort in the fermenter. It may not compare to published efficiencies but it tells me how much grain to use to arrive at the desired OG in the fermenter. I have given up on reaching Dave Miller numbers anyway. John Wilkinson - ----- End Included Message ----- Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:12:20 -0700 From: "Clark D. Ritchie" <ritchie at ups.edu> Subject: Where To Get Cool Tap Handles Here's an odd, strange or [borderline] pathetic query to anyone out there who runs, owns, distributes or is otherwise affiliated with the microbrew industry: where can I get a cool tap handle? I ask because I am constructing a bar and, while my existing tap handle is perfectly functional, the stock black handle that came with my tap is rather plain in comparison to the artsy and often clever tap handles that we all see in the bars. If anyone out there in HBD land has access to cool or otherwise nifty tap handles, I'd be willing to pay for one. Thanks... CDR Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie at ups.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:01:50 -0400 From: Btalk at aol.com Subject: Parlor CIty contest results PARLOR CITY BREW OFF RESULTS 208 or so entries total STRONG BEERS (11 Entries) 1st. Francois Espourteille Barley Wine ST 2nd. Rich Andel English Strong Ale BYI 3rd. Dave Grimes English Strong Ale SCBC & Matt Hanley BELGIANS (10 Entries) 1st. Jim Taylor White HVHB 2nd. Rich Andel Dubbel BYI 3rd. Francois Espourteille Gueuze ST BROWN ALES (13 Entries) 1st. Manny Holl American Brown Ale HVHB 2nd. Paul Van Slyke English Brown Ale 3rd. John Faulks American Brown Ale BCFA PALE ALES (21 Entries) 1st. Gerry Vaikness American Pale Ale SCBC 2nd. Jim Taylor American Pale Ale HVHB 3rd. Jim Taylor India Pale Ale HVHB ENGLISH BITTERS & SCOTTISH ALES (17 Entries) 1st. Richard Furlong Scottish Export HB 2nd. Roger Haggett Eng. Special Bitter BCFA 3rd. Lee Turner Scottish Export SCBC PORTERS (17 Entries) 1st. Chris Geden Robust Porter 2nd. Stephen Rosenzweig Robust Porter 3rd. Manny Holl Robust Porter HVHB STOUTS (16 Entries) 1st. Jim Taylor Imperial Stout HVHB 2nd. Timothy Suspanic Foreign Style Stout 3rd. Tom LaBarge Classic Dry Stout SCBC LIGHT LAGERS (18 Entries) 1st. Manny Holl Dortmund/Export HVHB 2nd. Pete Garofalo Classic Ger. Pilsner SCBC 3rd. Frank Haining Dortmund/Export BCFA Dark Lagers (17 Entries) 1st. Jim Taylor Doppelbock HVHB 2nd. Bob Edwards Schwarzbier BYI 3rd. Jim Li & Jeff Gertner Doppelbock AMBER LAGERS & MIXED STYLES (13 Entries) 1st. Frank Haining Dusseldorf Altbier BCFA 2nd. Anthony Becampis Dusseldorf Altbier HVHB 3rd. Don Hess California Common BCFA HERB, FRUIT, SPECIALTY & SMOKED (19 Entries) 1st. Lee Turner Classic Style Specialty SCBC 2nd. Robert Bulluck Classic Style Specialty 3rd. Anthony Becampis Pumpkin & Spice Ale HVHB WHEAT BEERS (8 Entries) 1st. Ronald Travis Weizen/weissbier 2nd. Kieran O'Connor Weizen/weissbier SCBC 3rd. Richard Furlong Weizen/Weissbier HB MEADS (18 Entries) 1st. Stephen Rosenzweig Still Traditional 2nd. Francois Espourteille Sparkling Traditional ST 3rd. Dennis Everett Still Cyser SCBC CIDERS (9 Entries) 1st. Frank Haining Still Cider BCFA 2nd. Tim Nabors New England Style BBL 3rd. Dean Peterson Specialty Cider BCFA BEST OF SHOW - BEER 1st. Francois Espourteille Barley Wine 2nd. Jim Taylor Belgian White 3rd . Lee Turner Classic Style Specialty BEST OF SHOW - MEAD/CIDER 1st. Frank Haining Still Cider 2nd. Tim Nabors New England Style Cider 3rd. Francois Espourteille Sparkling Traditional Mead CLUB ABBREVIATIONS: BCFA = Broome County Fermenters association BYI = Borderline Yeast Infectors BBL = Blotarian Brewers League HVHB = Hudson Valley Home Brewers HB = Hogtown Brewers SCBC = Salt City Brew Club ST = Saratoga Thoroughbrews Best of Show judges: Dave Grimes Scott Barrett Paul Krebs Steve Daughhetee Thanks to all who entered and helped out the day of the contest. The overall beer quality was pretty good. Very few 19's and no one complained of any really awful beers! See you next year! Roger Haggett, organizer <hagger at aol.com> Bob Talkiewicz, assistant organizer <btalk at aol.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:48:49 -0500 From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com> Subject: Wort Chillers >"FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS" <BFINLEY at MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU> >Subject: chillers > > >I'm fairly new to the world of brewing, however, I am not a rookie. >There are still many things that I don't have a complete understand of. >For instance, I know that the faster the wort can be chilled, the better >the beer will be. But How can this be done? At the present time, I've >been filling the sink up with ice, then placing my brew pot in the sink. >This works ok but I wish to get a little more sophisticated. What >exactly is the principle of an immersion chiller and how could I go >about making one? Heya Barry! An imersion chiller is basically taking runnning cold water and putting it inside the brewpot instead of having static cold water around the outside. This is more efficient if you get enough flow through the tube, and enough surface area to allow for good heat transfer. If your going to make one to chill a 5 gal batch of wort, I would reccomend using about 1/2" Cu tubing (or pipe) 10' - 15' long. Coil it so it fits inside the kettle (can't kink it!) and run one end to your cold water faucet, and the other to the sink drain. I made a wort chiller by using a counterflow heat exchanger. This is a double walled tube where you run one liquid thru the center tube in one direction, and the other fluid thru the outer tube in the opposite direction. I used two refrigeration condensing coils linked together. The inner tube is about 1/2" dia, and the outer tube (jacket) is about 3/4" or 7/8" dia. I run the wort thru the inner tube (sanitizing with idophor and rinsing with *hot* water beforehand) and cold tap water thru the jacket. This gets 95 C wort down to 10 C between the kettle and fermenting tank. Your mileage will vary depending on flow rates and what your cooling water temp is. I don't have the heat transfer calc's handy, but if you don't have a HVAC or heat transfer book around, and you want to run your own numbers, I can send you the formulae. Jim Nasiatka into All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity... ____ \ / Nothing is so strong as Gentleness; JWylde at interaccess.com \/ nothing so gentle as real strength Nasiatka at anl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:50:50 -0500 From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com> Subject: CO2 Tanks In HBD 2011 Art McGregor <mcgregap at acq.osd.mil> writes: >Another question deals with securing the CO2 tank. Does anyone have a simple, >but effective way to make sure the CO2 tank won't fall over, which could cause t>he valve to bust off, thus sending the tank off like a rocket thru the house? >What I might do is build a wooden box that is a little bit larger than the >diameter of the tank and then bolt the box to the concrete floor, then put CO2 >tank inside of wood box. If there is a simpler method I would like to know. You can do that, but it'd be a lot of work - the place where you got your cylinder should sell/have mounts for cylinders that clamp on to tables/desks or can be bolted directly to a wall. There are also cylinder stands for 'laboratory and demonstration' purposes, which basically are steel versions of your wooden box, but aren't bolted to the floor. If you can't get/afford one of these, you can get by just making the base of the box sufficiently wide - say by attaching it to a 2' x 2' piece of plywood - so it can't tip over. I'd also reccomend making one side hinged with a latch so you don't have to pick up the cylinder, increasing the risk of dropping it and knocking the valve off.. Also, whenever your cylinder is not in use, make sure the cap is on it. If you transport the cylinder in a vehicle, DOT requires this as well as making sure it's properly secured. An additional point, concerning regulations/safety, make sure you have adequate ventillation - 20# of liquid CO2 at 800 psi is a lot of gas, and while not poisonous, CO2 is an asphyziant that is heavier than air and will displace available O2 if you get a big leak. Whatever way you decide to go, make sure you do secure the cylinder, 'cause not only will it be a rocket, it'll be an uncontrolled rocket that will go through your house *many* times (including brick walls) Jim Nasiatka Argone National Laboratory All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity... ____ \ / Nothing is so strong as Gentleness; JWylde at interaccess.com \/ nothing so gentle as real strength Nasiatka at anl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:06:53 -0500 From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde at interaccess.com> Subject: Carbonation Question OK... it's my turn for a question. I just completed my first attempt at using a CO2 tank for carbonation on a corny keg, and have run into a problem that I didn't imagine happening. After carbonating, during bottleing, the dissolved CO2 rapidly comes out of solution in the hose running from the corny keg to the bottle, causing it to come out as 98% foam (well ok, maybe only 95% :) I've kept the keg in my garage (natures fridge) and it's at about 40F. CO2 pressure was at 40psi, and the keg was agitated for about 15 minutes. After this time, I released the pressure, and re-applied appx. 1psi to push the beer out of the keg. As soon as the beer gets past the quick disconnect and into the PVC hose, it starts to bubble and foam. At first I thought I was overpressurizing it, and backed the pressure off - no difference. Then, I removed the plug from the keg and tried a plain old-fashioned siphon. Same damn thing, and the gas coming out killed the siphon in short order too. My current theory is that the relatively warm PVC line caused a vapor pressure difference, allowing the CO2 to come out. My temporary solution was pitchers of beer, but after all that, it was still a bit flat from foaming all over the place. For the next batch I'm going to try making sure that the beer is really chilled (closer to 32F) and that the fill line is chilled as well to minimize the delta T. Does this sound like an appropriate solution, or am I missing something and just pissing in the wind? Jim Nasiatka All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity... ____ \ / Nothing is so strong as Gentleness; JWylde at interaccess.com \/ nothing so gentle as real strength Nasiatka at anl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 22:35:09 -0400 From: KDDrakes at aol.com Subject: Re:Re:Bottle Washing Jeff Frane writes: <snip> >why is it that in approximately 10 years of brewing and santizing bottles >in the oven, I've never broken a single bottle? Inquiring minds want >to know. Luck, Jeff, pure luck >For me, the great advantage is that I can **break** the process up into >manageable lumps. I can wash one day, sanitize another day, and fill >yet another day. No hassles, and no exploding bottles. Jeff, did you say break? What ever works.... Kerry Drake Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 21:29:26 -0700 From: Robert Bullard <rbullard at datasync.com> Subject: Installing beer taps in chest freezers Subject: Installing beer taps in chest freezers Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 21:19:44 -0700 From: Robert Bullard <rbullard at datasync.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com Several weeks ago I asked the groups advice on installing a beer shank on the vertical wall of a chest freezer. I was concerned about running into cooler or condenser coils running through the sides. I received many replys and I thank you one and all for your help. The methods offered are summarized: 1. Cut a probe hole into the skin of the freezer, clean out some insulation and see where it is safe to drill. Drill the required 1" hole and cover any exploratory holes with steel plates or caulk. 2. Build a wooden "collar" that fits between the top of the freezer and the lid. Then drill required holes in the wood. 3. Build a box out of foam and fiberglass and glass it on to the top and then cut a hole in the lid under the box and mount the shank on front of the fiberglass box. Although I really wanted to go with option 1 originally, I ultimately chickened out due to fear of ruining the freezer. A also wanted to keep the co2 bottle outside the box so this doubled my risk (2 holes). Plus if I ever wanted to add a second shank, I'd be playing roullette again. Option 3 sounded good, but I have no experience with fiberglass so didn't go with this one either. I think this would be a good option for someone who knows what they are doing. I finally settled on option 2. I was afraid of just raising the lid up the height of a 2X4 as this would mean drilling more holes in the back of the freezer to reposition the lid hinges, so I built the collar out of 1x10 pine shelving. I went whole hog and sandwiched 3/4" cellotex insullating sheathing between two pieces of 1x10. This made the collar almost the exact thickness of the freezer walls. I'm very happy with the outcome. The shank is up at a comfortable level, and best of all I now have beer on tap! Thanks again to all the valuable advice I got from the group. I really enjoy reading the articles posted here. I think I'm actually learning something about home brewing. BTW, does anyone have a source for a drain pan that I can use with my new keg cooler to catch the drips and foam from the beer shank? TIA Bob Bullard Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:31:45 -0400 From: DOUGWEISER at aol.com Subject: delurking Greetings, Caution! Delurking for a first post to HBD! Please forgive any problems I may encounter. I have two questions. First, can any of the metallurgists out there tell me if a stainless half barrel keg can be damaged by being partially filled with water for several weeks at a time. A friend uses his brew kettles for water baths for his carboys and is wondering if this can cause pitting or any other damage. Second, is there anyone out there who can tell me if Celis is shipping their products to Arizona, Nevada, or New Mexico? I need some Celis White, and am willing to travel to get some. TIA, Doug in California Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:55:58 -0400 From: bob at carol.net (Robert Rogers) Subject: prohibition story this post is a little off the brewing topic, but my grandmother tells of relatives from the big city coming to help when her mother was expecting. they arrived tipsy and my g-grandfather noticed, but expected the effects to wear off soon. after the second day, they had progressed to drunk! he began watching them, and found they had filled the tube for the spare tire with some sort of alcohol. i bet it tasted real good! bob, brewing in the buckle of the bible belt. bob rogers, bob at carol.net Return to table of contents

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