HOMEBREW Digest #4269 Thu 12 June 2003

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  Re: Orval ("Peter Myers")
  homebrew consumption poll ("Ian Watson")
  Re: brew shops near [Marina Del Rey] CA ("Kent Fletcher")
  Re: hbd post ("Jim Yeagley")
  shipping alcohol ("Dave Burley")
  A question of style and ingredients ("Chip Bulla")
  re Shipping/Mailing Beer (Bill_Rehm)
  AHA Conference Attendance & Pub Crawl ("Martin Brungard")
  Cheap Buffers ("A.J. deLange")
  pH solutions (mas4786)
  Re: mailing beer (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com>
  RE: a little power... (Brian Lundeen)
  RE: Chicago next week (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com>
  Regional American Styles (Ted Teuscher)
  Re: Mailing Beer ("Troy A. Wilson")
  RE: Mailing Beer ("Mike Sharp")
  NHC conference ("Rob & Robin Beck")
  re:  mailing beer ("Jim Yeagley") ("Mike Bronosky")
  Re: Conditioning Scotch Ale in a Virgin Barrel (Robert Sandefer)
  RE: AHA Conference ("Leonard, Phil")
  burnt rubber smell -- yeast culture ("Janie Curry")
  Bamberger Brewery Museum ("Fred Scheer")

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:51:05 +1000 From: "Peter Myers" <myerspeter at bigpond.com> Subject: Re: Orval On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:35:13 -0400, Joel Gallihue reflected on the taste of Orval. I had been a Belgian fan for quite a while when I tasted my very first Orval, and have not had one since! A few years ago Belgian beers were quite difficult to find in Australia, and for many months prior to the experience I had been reading and listening to others expound upon the virtues of the brew. After several months I was shocked to see it stocked at a nearby liquor store. My impression upon tasting it was; "Aptly named! This stuff is bloody Orval!!" It tasted all the world like dishwashing liquid, and it was an experience I have not been quick to repeat. Now I realise that in all likelihood, the bottle was old and the beer had fallen from it's last legs many months prior to my opening it and with this in mind, I will probably force myself to buy another one for comparisons sake when next I see it on the shelf. But as far as first impressions go, it was a memory I will always remember ... for all the wrong reasons. Cheers, Pete Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 01:10:17 -0400 From: "Ian Watson" <realtor at niagara.com> Subject: homebrew consumption poll Hello all I was reading the digest the other day and someone mentioned the amount of homebrew they consume daily and I got to thinking how this hobby of ours supplies is with almost unlimited booze and I was wondering if I was not alone in my daily drinking. So I ask: How much homebrew do we swallow on an average day? My answer would be 2 to 4 pints. Ian Watson St. Catharines, Canada Rennerian co-ordinates to be recalculated. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 00:29:55 -0700 From: "Kent Fletcher" <kfletcher at socal.rr.com> Subject: Re: brew shops near [Marina Del Rey] CA Braam asked about: > There is a small chance that I will visit nearby the following : > Marina Del Rey, CA > If you know of a good Homebrew shop nearby pls send me the name/URL. > Any shop within quick shipping distance is also o.k. Braam, the Culver City Home Brewin Supply Co, http://www.brewsupply.com/ is about four miles from MDR, and very easy to find. It's the host shop for the Pacific Gravity http://www.pacificgravity.com/ club. The Homebrew club scene is pretty active in Southern California, with four good sized and very active clubs including the Maltose Falcons http://www.maltosefalcons.com/ Strand Brewers http://www.strandbrewers.org/ Long Beach Homebrewers http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/geldridge/lbh.htm and the aforementioned P.G., all in the greater L.A. area, and not to mention a few smaller, less active clubs. Should CCHBS not have something you need, the Home Beer, Wine and Cheesemaking Shop is just over the hill in the Valley (with a great selection of malts, hops and yeasts). Usual disclaimers apply. Kent Fletcher, Brewing in So Cal Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:07:03 -0400 From: "Jim Yeagley" <jyeag at core.com> Subject: Re: hbd post - ----- Original Message ----- > Dear Mr.Postal Inspector, > > You sound like a weenie to me. Well, I'm no inspector, just a mail processing equipment mechanic who's been scared sh#tless a few too many times by false "white powder in envelope" alarms, got me a little on edge. I suppose I could be considered a weenie, though. >But then what should I expect from > an employee of a government-mandated monopoly with huge tax > breaks, exorbitant costs, high debt levels, low productivity, > shrinking revenues, no incentive to innovate, no incentive to > lower costs, no incentive to improve service, and no incentive to > improve productivity ... but lots of incentive for rate hikes. > And there is that pseudo-governmental status. Whew! I'm shocked you left out the part about the firearms, etc. Heard 'em all, still get a kick out of 'em! >I will lie to you > and your 800,000 coworkers as often as possible ... especially if > I am shipping homebrew. ...and there's nothing I can do about it. Thanks. Jim Yeagley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:22:43 -0400 From: "Dave Burley" <Dave_Burley at charter.net> Subject: shipping alcohol Brewsters: I really wonder about the ill-legality of shipping alcohol by common carrier. I know wine is shipped interstate to those states willing to accept it. Can someone define the regulation? Is it possible the carriers don't want to do it? Keep on Brewin' Dave Burley Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:54:25 -0400 From: "Chip Bulla" <chip_bulla at hotmail.com> Subject: A question of style and ingredients Hello fellow brewers! I wanted to get some feedback from the collective, in particular, the certified beer judges in the group. But before I get to my question, a bit of background info. When I first got into brewing, the third batch I had ever made was of my own creation (I made up a recipe from scratch). I added what I had in stock at the time, in terms of hops, which consisted of Hallertauer and Tetnanger, and made an ale. It turned out to be one of my best, if not the best beers I've ever made. My wife, who is not a big beer drinker, loved it so much that she always wants me to make it again. Now, I have been reading the style guidelines recently (both AHA and BJCP), in addition to information on ingredients, and note that the noble hops I used are traditionally used in lagers. Also, the style guidelines do not always mention the types of hops typically used for a particular style. So my question is hopefully simple -- how do you determine which ingredients to use, in order to make a certain style, when general examples of traditional ingredients are not always mentioned? Secondly, given the fact that I did use traditional lager hops to make an ale, how can I determine the style for that particular beer? Some of the other vital stats for the beer in question were as follows: OG 1.050 FG 1.010 Approximate IBU 38-40 Approximate Color 12-14 In the past, when anyone ever asked what kind of beer it was, I always told them it was an ale and left it at that. However, if I ever considered entering this into a competition, what category would it be entered under? Any comments or opinions are welcomed. Thanks in advance. Chip Bulla Apex NC [525.8,147.7] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:57:42 -0500 From: Bill_Rehm at eFunds.Com Subject: re Shipping/Mailing Beer If shipping/mailing beer is "illegal" how does the Beer of the month club send me beer every month? L. William Rehm Offline Development Phone: 414-341-5732 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:07:01 -0400 From: "Martin Brungard" <Martin.Brungard at trow.com> Subject: AHA Conference Attendance & Pub Crawl You bet I'll be at the conference. It was obvious almost a year ago that this was going to be a stellar event. One disappointing distraction is that the pub crawl is sold out. I see that the Chicago Beer Society (CBS) has put together a nice night that includes some food and transportation arrangements. I assume that the food and return-trip bus capacity is what is limiting the number of people they can include in the event. The good thing is that their capacity limitation will not deter us. Those interested in tagging along with the pub crawl should also meet near the conference registration desk at the hotel at 5 pm on Wednesday. That's also when the 'real' pub crawl meets. Tag-alongs will have to make their own transportation arrangements (i.e. buy their own CTA pass), buy their own food, and buy their own beer. It might be a little more expensive this way, but what the heck, this is a vacation! I see that the one-day CTA passes are $5 and you can buy one at the Rosemont, O'Hare, or Midway CTA stations (or others). I assume that the CBS has garnered some special food and beer deals with the various breweries and taverns. We'll probably lose out on those, oh well! I suppose you should remember to bring your shiny new Rock Bottom VIP card on this trip so that you can get a nice deal at that place. So, don't despair if you missed signing up for the pub crawl. You can still enjoy the night with your beer 'buds' (oops, I mean beer 'celebrators') on your own pub crawl. Less than a week to go! Martin Brungard Tallahassee, FL Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:20:07 +0000 From: "A.J. deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Cheap Buffers Well, blood is pretty tightly buffered between 7.2 and 7.3 if I remember correctly (don't hyperventilate before applying the leeches). A solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) in distilled (or otherwise DI) water will be at 8.3 but the buffering capacity is minimum there. Boiled deionized water has a pH of 7 but no buffering capacity, will pick up CO2 from the air (causing the pH to drop fairly rapidly) and is hard to read because of low ionic strength. I suppose addition of some table salt would solve the last problem. After a little more thinking it occured to me that beer, mega-commercial beer that is, would probably come out of the bottling plant with pH pretty tightly controlled IOW succesive lots of Bud from the Van Nuys AB plant, e.g., ought to have pretty close to the same pH and a pH at the low end of the span you'd want to calibrate your meter for. I don't know what that pH is but if you could find that out by measuring a few sample with a good, calibrated meter it ought to work. The whole excercise may be mooted by the fact that the kind of pH accuracy required in brewing is such that a "checker" calibrated with salt water and beer may not be of much value. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:12:21 -0500 From: mas4786 <mas4786 at nebrwesleyan.edu> Subject: pH solutions How precise is your pH meter (i.e. what decimal point will it precisely measure the pH to?). If you bought a nice pH meter that has decent precision it would defeat the point to calibrate it crappy and if you don't use the lab tested standards more than likely that is what is going to happen. What I did was buy the expensive stuff and just put it in a tupperware container and reuse it. Mine has lasted over a year and I still have solution. Otherwise check ebay; there are all kinds of lab products on there. Marc Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:19:21 -0400 From: "Barrett, Bob (R.A.)" <rbarrett at ford.com> Subject: Re: mailing beer I like Chad Stevens' thoughts on mailing beer and trying to change the laws to make it legal for competitions. I also understand the position of the AHA. I was one of the members that brought up the issue back in 2001 at the NHC in L.A. One other person in Congress that has backed homebrewing is Representative Jim Moran of Virginia. I read on the MCAB website that he sponsored the opening reception at this year's event in the Cannon House Office Building Caucus Room on Capitol Hill. May be someone worth having in the conversation. Probably someone from the BURP club knows him. We make the beer we drink!! Bob Barrett (2.8, 103.6) Rennerian He'll be at my house on Friday for the AABG meeting. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:26:50 -0500 From: Brian Lundeen <BLundeen at rrc.mb.ca> Subject: RE: a little power... > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 07:51:40 -0400 > From: "Jim Yeagley" <jyeag at core.com> > Subject: re: mailing beer > > That's exactly the kind of thing the Postal Inspectors love > to do! If you must break rules, it is important to know that > the USPS rules are actually federal law. For whatever reason > the laws were originally written, their overall purpose is to > protect the mail, the customers, and the employees. I, the > Postal Inspection Service, and my 800,000 coworkers take > these rules pretty seriously. Protection, huh? Well, I guess it's that 'slippery slope' argument that I can never fully grasp. First one bottle of beer gets through, then another, before you know it, the World Trade Center is coming down. This way of thinking reminds me of an episode of Hill St Blues (still the best cop show ever made, IMO): Lt Hunter makes some joke about some upcoming elections, prompting an angry outburst from Sgt Jablonski. Jablonski: When it comes to the electoral process, Sgt Stan Jablonski has ZERO sense of humour. Hunter (soto voce): Hmmm, neck and neck with your IQ... Well, keep making the world safe from fermented beverages, Jim. I realize you are only following orders. Cheers Brian Lundeen Brewing at [819 miles, 313.8 deg] aka Winnipeg Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:35:19 -0400 From: "Jones, Steve (eIS) - Eastman" <stjones at eastman.com> Subject: RE: Chicago next week Jeff Gladish asks who will be will be at [207.8, 265.3] next week. I will be there, and if I receive my HBD button on time I'll be wearing it. Steve Jones, Johnson City, TN State of Franklin Homebrewers http://hbd.org/franklin [421.8 mi, 168.5 deg] Apparent Rennerian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Teuscher <t_teuscher at yahoo.com> Subject: Regional American Styles To AHA Board Members: I was pondering the possibility of the AHA undertaking the task of creating several committees (even though I hate that word and all it stands for) of volunteers to establish guidelines for regional American brews. Why should we always assume we have to brew beer that was influenced by mostly European geographical and historical factors? I think it is time that guidelines be defined for beer styles that would have been created had brewers lived in North America for thousands of years. I know there are already a few (California Steaam Beer, CAPs, American IPA) but even these styles I think are simple modifications of European recipes (somebody will probably point out how wrong I am about this) that were influenced by European settlers/immigrants. USA could be divided into many regions where soil types, types of hops and grain that would have been grown in that region, temperature of the region, water quality, yeast strains perhaps, etc would define its style. Each region could be assigned its own committee to establish what the guidelines for their beer will be. I would like to emphasize that European immigration influences should be ignored as much as common sense would allow and the style based upon other factors. In other words, just because many Central Europeans immigrated to the Central USA doesn't mean the beer style for Central USA should immitate a German Wheat Beer, although it still may if the committee determined factors would dictate a similar style. I think this would be a fun and educational activity for many homebrew clubs around the country. The AHA could even publish a book after a year or two once the styles have been defined that lists the factors for determining each regions guidelines and suggest basic recipes for each style. I am thinking about USA mostly (since I am a citizen) but other countries could obviously follow suit. We could vastly expand the beer style repertoire. Just a thought. Cheers, Ted Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:55:23 -0500 From: "Troy A. Wilson" <troy at troyandjulia.com> Subject: Re: Mailing Beer How does the "Beer/Wine of the Month Club" do it? Don't they ship beer/wine to your doorstep? Troy A. Wilson troy at troyandjulia.com There are only 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't. - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:40:06 -0700 From: "Mike Sharp" <rdcpro at hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Mailing Beer Chad Stevens makes excellent points on legalizing the mailing of beer "if we don't proactively fight to ensure our civil liberties, they become eroded by virtue of our tacit consent." This argument alone should be sufficient to get behind the lobbying of our legislators. Frankly, I don't see how arguing to make something legal can do worse than keep it illegal (as it is in the first place). Let's not forget that homebrewing itself was illegal until someone (and I don't really know who to credit) talked Alan Cranston into sponsoring a bill to legalize it. What would the state of our hobby be if the collective had shrunk from the effort, worrying that raising the issue would only bring the illicit practice of homebrewing to the light of scrutiny? I pitched my first yeast sometime around 1968, I think (ok, it was root beer)...has the statute of limitations run out? Regards, Mike Sharp Kent, Wa Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:43:36 -0500 From: "Rob & Robin Beck" <3rbecks at sbcglobal.net> Subject: NHC conference I'll be there. Be sure to stop by the KC Bier Meisters table on club night and say hi. Rob Beck Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:00:57 -0700 From: "Mike Bronosky" <Mike at Bronosky.com> Subject: re: mailing beer ("Jim Yeagley") >>My suggestion to homebrewers: ignore the shipping laws, whatever >>they are. If someone at USPS/UPS/FedEX/etc. asks the contents of >>a package, just lie. Nobody will break down your door for illegal >>shipment of a few bottles of homebrew. >Peter, Peter, Peter! > >That's exactly the kind of thing the Postal Inspectors love to do! If you >must break rules, it is important to know that the USPS rules are actually >federal law. For whatever reason the laws were originally written, their >overall purpose is to protect the mail, the customers, and the employees. >I, the Postal Inspection Service, and my 800,000 coworkers take these rules >pretty seriously. >Jim Yeagley Sounds to me that we may have too many postal inspectors. Cut the postal budget, especially the part that pays the postal inspectors. I'm 100% against living in a police state. Probably the people that put forth the law that bands shipping of beer don't drink it in the first place, for religious reasons. Mike - --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:45:03 -0400 From: Robert Sandefer <melamor at vzavenue.net> Subject: Re: Conditioning Scotch Ale in a Virgin Barrel Jonathan Royce asks several questions about conditioning a virgin oak barrel with diluted bourbon. First off, let me say that the following are my opinions and that I don't have practical experience with handling barrels. On the other hand, I have read a fair amount about brewing, distilling, etc... So... Jonathan, I think your ideas sound very plausible and you may indeed get a decent product using the approach you postulated. However, it sounds iffy to me. As far as I know, barrels need to be kept absolutely full when they are holding/storing solutions with lower alcohol concentrations (i.e, less than 80 proof). Your method uses a 10% alcohol solution, so you would need to make sure it stays topped up or you risk acetobacter infection (which would ruin the barrel). Next, if I'm reading your message right, the diluted bourbon would be in the barrel for a few months. Most commercial aged distilled alcohols, including bourbon, are stored in barrels for years (2-3 years min). I doubt that enough flavor would be left in the barrel after so short a period. Lastly, I would not count on 10% alcohol to sterilize (or sanitize) much of anything. Before putting beer in there, I'd recommend a sulfite solution for this purpose. If you want bourbon flavor in your beer, I would simply add a bottle of bourbon to it at bottling/kegging time. You wouldn't boil it obviously ;) and you might want to add more yeast at the same time to ensure adequate carbonation, unless you force carbonate. The barrel is still useful for examining the effect of oak (and not bourbon) on beer. Speaking of which, I have an oaked porter to start. If you don't already have it, Cider Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider by Proulx & Nichols is a decent book and it talks about barrel care. I have no affiliation with the authord or publisher. Sante. Robert Sandefer Arlington, VA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:05:52 -0500 From: "Leonard, Phil" <Phil.Leonard at dsionline.com> Subject: RE: AHA Conference Jeff wants to know who is going to the NHC: I'll be there. Philip [612 251.4 AR] Overland Park, KS Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:41:40 +0000 From: "Janie Curry" <houndandcalico at hotmail.com> Subject: burnt rubber smell -- yeast culture Fellow Craft Brewers, I recently purchased a stirring plate and now use it in conjunction with a HEPPA filter and an aquarium pump to aerate my yeast starters. (I insert a HEPPA filter in the aeration line and feed the line through the stopper hole where the fermentation lock normally goes.) On one occassion, I pulled a flask from the refrigerator that contained a yeast slurry that had been stored under beer for a few months and stepped it up using 1/3 cup of DME boiled in one pint of water. I added approximately 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of yellow crystalline "yeast energizer" while boiling the DME and water. I stirred and aerated for a few days and stepped it up again. I brewed that weekend and when it came time to pitch the yeast slurry I unplugged the flask and immediately detected a STRONG burnt rubber smell. I pitched it, then got worried, and pitched re-hydrated dry yeast an hour or so later. The beer tasted fine. On the second occassion (this weekend), I stepped up a Wyeast pitchable German Ale yeast 1007 tube twice using the same technique. Again, when I took the stopper off the flask the burnt rubber smell was quite offensive. I pitched about 500ml of suspension and had fermentation activity in the airlock in about 2 hours. A good strong even fermentation continues and the beer smells fine. What's up? I've never used "yeast energizer" in starter cultures. Could that be the source of the smell? Previous archive debates argue that burnt rubber smells do / do not result from autolyzed yeast. Should I change my practice? Todd in Idaho (formerly, Todd in Turkey) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:04:08 -0500 From: "Fred Scheer" <FHopheads at msn.com> Subject: Bamberger Brewery Museum HI All: If you like to see pictures from my recent trip to Germany's (Bamberger) Brauerei Museum, please go to www.brewsbrothers.net and follow the link. If you like information how to become a member of the Museum and support the good cause of preserving Brewing and Malting History, please contact me. Thanks for your time, Fred Scheer, Braumeister Boscos Nashville, Brewing Co. The Restaurant for Beer Lovers Return to table of contents
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