HOMEBREW Digest #4802 Sun 17 July 2005

[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]

		Digest Janitor: pbabcock at hbd.org


          Northern  Brewer, Ltd. Home Brew Supplies
Visit http://www.northernbrewer.com  to show your appreciation!
               Or call them at 1-800-681-2739

    Support those who support you! Visit our sponsor's site!
********** Also visit http://hbd.org/hbdsponsors.html *********

  Fortnight Of Yeast, 2005 (jerry & Lilly Scott)
  Fortnight of Yeast ("I ≠ coldheart")
  Fortnight Of Yeast, 2005 - Viability, fructose metabolism and acid production ("Fredrik")
  Re:  Bud Light's aluminum bottles--any reports? (asemok)
  Re: Pat's woes... ("Michael O'Donnell")
  Re: Wheat recipe... ("Greg 'groggy' Lehey")
  Re: mash temps (dry ale) (David Edge)
  Fortnight Of Yeast, 2005 - methlyene blue (David Edge)
  Fortnight of Yeast: (Ken/Jean Schramm)
  Wheat Beer/RO Water ("A.J deLange")
  Turbo Tap ("Rod Prather")
  Ballantine Ale Clone (pulsarxp)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The HBD Logo Store is now open! * * http://www.hbd.org/store.html * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Suppport this service: http://hbd.org/donate.shtml * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Beer is our obsession and we're late for therapy! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Fortnight of Yeast 2005 - 10 July through 24 July * * Presented in cooperation with Lallemand * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Send articles for __publication_only__ to post@hbd.org If your e-mail account is being deleted, please unsubscribe first!! To SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE send an e-mail message with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" to request@hbd.org FROM THE E-MAIL ACCOUNT YOU WISH TO HAVE SUBSCRIBED OR UNSUBSCRIBED!!!** IF YOU HAVE SPAM-PROOFED your e-mail address, you cannot subscribe to the digest as we cannot reach you. We will not correct your address for the automation - that's your job. HAVING TROUBLE posting, subscribing or unsusubscribing? See the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. LOOKING TO BUY OR SELL USED EQUIPMENT? Please do not post about it here. Go instead to http://homebrewfleamarket.com and post a free ad there. The HBD is a copyrighted document. The compilation is copyright HBD.ORG. Individual postings are copyright by their authors. ASK before reproducing and you'll rarely have trouble. Digest content cannot be reproduced by any means for sale or profit. More information is available by sending the word "info" to req@hbd.org or read the HBD FAQ at http://hbd.org. JANITORs on duty: Pat Babcock (pbabcock at hbd dot org), Jason Henning, and Spencer Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:13:57 -0500 From: jerry & Lilly Scott <jerry.lilly at earthlink.net> Subject: Fortnight Of Yeast, 2005 Q. I am getting ready to go to Germany for a couple of weeks. Please duscuss methods of harvesting and transporting yeast samples from the brewies I am likely to visit. In particular I am interested in what it would take for me to harvest and culture samples from my favorite Lager and Hefe Weizen (both from are from Mahr's Brau in Bamberg. The Lager is their "Ungespundet" (non-filtered) beer and so I would think that a sample should be fairly easy to harvest from a bottle of either. However, if it would be practical to bring two or three more yeasts home I would certainly like to. Thanks Jerry Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:26:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "I &#8800; coldheart" <rebelcat1 at yahoo.com> Subject: Fortnight of Yeast Hi, long time lurker here. I am very intrested in traditional brewing practices, and in researching the methods used in the past it is very hard to find information about yeast, primarly because brewers were unaware of its existance untill recently. I would like a mixed strain yeast that I can reculture infinatly. The goal would be to develop a mix of yeasts that would be a 'house blend' and would mutate over time. The reculturing technique would be scooping off the yeasty head of active beer, using the sludge at the bottom of the fermenter, or simply pouring part of the old batch into the new one. The fermenter will eventualy be a wooden barrel, so that should help to carry the yeast over between batches. Is it feasable to continue this for years? Will yeast mutations cause undrinkable beer? The alternative is to use wild yeast in every batch, which would allow an amount of consistancy and reduce the chances of contamination of the yeast culture. Is this a better option? If so, what types of wild yeasts are good for making beer? I know specific wild yeasts are associated with certain plants, what plants can I grow that will have tasty yeasts on them? Thank you very much for your time. If possible, answers to both sets of questions would be very helpful. Looking foward all the info this year! -Will in oregon. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:31:33 +0200 From: "Fredrik" <carlsbergerensis at hotmail.com> Subject: Fortnight Of Yeast, 2005 - Viability, fructose metabolism and acid production Greetings experts from Lallemand! Thanks again for another round of this fortnight of yeast! It's much appreciated! To the questions. (1) Yeast viability drop during storage and measurement methods To make a long story short, last year I did some experiments and viability drop tests with the methylene staining procedure and I posted the results to this list for comments some time ago, and come up with to my limited understanding some conclusions but I really would like your more authorative opinion on this. The main reason for my confusion was that the amazingly high apparent survival rates I found in wyeast smack packs! I did a viability drop experiment with collected primary yeast and found a quick viability drop. I definitely expected the smack pack to last longer, but the difference surprised me. My preliminary conclusions was that - Viability as per methylene blue staining seems to generally give slightly higher numbers as compare to platings, even accounting for the fact that one colony/count may be generated by a small flocc of cells. - The viability was higher than I though in the 19 month old pack. Though possibly 86% was and overestimate. The question is exactly how much? As it seems, when the health drops, some cells that are technically alive, or at least enough "alive" to reduce the dye, are not healthy enogh to complete a budding cycle - thus the deviation between method are expected to increase with poor health and low viability. In principle this made sense, but the question is Q1. How big deviation in numbers can you expect? typically? The first test I did was to stain a 19 month old koelsh pack. I opened the bag, without smacking the nutritient bag, and the viability was ~86%. Q2. Is this a normal survival rate if cells are good and O2 kept away, or is this to be considered exceptional? OR is something wrong with the staining method? The pack was stored refridgerated the whole time, around 5C or so. Once the pack was opened I stored the remaining slurry in the fridge, however it was unavoidable to expose it to oxygen. Once the pack was opened, and I assume, exposure to oxygen. The viability drop rate quickly adopted that of the previous fridge slurry test I did. (http://hem.bredband.net/frerad/beer/modelling/gallery/graph_82days.jpg) After another 45 days, the 19 month pack originally 86%, dropped to 50% *as per the methylene vlue staining method*. But after this 45 days I correlated with a plating and found the colony count / #plated cells to be 15%. Then I found by microscope inspection that the average floc size was around 1.8 cells. So correcting for this, the 15% would actually be 27% as compare to the 50% from the staining procedure. All of the numbers are averaged, so I am a little doutful that all of the missing 23% are due to measurement errors. And the flocc size is already corrected for. Q3. The question is now, if this deviation could be expected due to differences in the methods? Methylene blue staining vs plating? Can you please comment? (4) I'm trying to simply the some regulatory control of the main parts of metabolism and in standard bio text you read about some of the main regulatory step, but I think I also read a claim that the main regulating step for glycolysis in yeast is the uptake of sugars, or transport of sugars through the cell membrane? Is this so, in the sense that the regulatory role of the hexokinases are negletcable? For example, I've read general, non-yeast specific biotexts says that the typical hexokinase enzymes for phosphorylation of hexoses have about 20 times higher affinity for gluseo than for fructose. Q4. Now my questions in this example is if yeast would ferment fructose significantly slower than glucose? If not, is this because the phosphorylation of fructose or glucose is not main limitors, and that the sugar transport through the cell wall is limiting? I had planned to make a comparasion with a 100% glucose batch, and 100% fructose batch, do you think there would be any differences in the fermentation profile or acid production? Q5) Can you elaborate on factors that affect the production of organic acids during fermentation? I have made a few sugar brew experiments some time ago and found a clear correlation between final pH and amount of sugar used. I am assuming that this may have more than one reasons. Lacking amino acids might be one? but would ammonium nitrogen prevent excess acid production? Or does the simple and "quick" sugars cause a higher flow into the glyolysis pipelines than the yeast can get rid of? and that this overflow in glycolysis and perhaps acyl-CoA pools cause elevated acids beeing releasedi into the beer? >From the pH/sugar data I had the impression that there was a treshold of simple sugars where pH started to drop. How does the cell respond when pH drops? Do it increase secrection of acids into the cytosol to maintain a pH gradient? Could this be a factor, accelerating acid production in the case of pH drop due to poor buffering capacity of the growth media? Any other factors relevant to acid production? Q6) A further speculation on (Q5), do you think that considering temperature, and other condistions that a warm fermentation of much simple sugars can give more esters, on the expense of organic acids? So that instead of acids, we see more esters and a kind of duality between esters and acids? excess acids are released as acids unless esterified efficiently? I ask this because I have one datapoint of my own that does deviate on the sugar/pH pattern. It was fermented very warm(far too warm:), and had plenty of diacetly and plenty of ethylacetate! but it was not significantly acidic in despite alot of sugar. though I'm sure are could be other explanaions to this. This was another strain. The pH/sugar correlation was all made with nottingham from what I remember. I guess some questions may be hard to answer but I would in any case appreciate any elaborations and comments from you. /Fredrik Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:46:19 -0400 From: asemok at mac.com Subject: Re: Bud Light's aluminum bottles--any reports? On Jul 16, 2005, at 6:02 PM, David Radwin <dradwin at sbcglobal.net>: > And can someone suggest a good use for the Bud Light inside? (Drinking > it is out > of the question, of course, and we don't have too many snails and > slugs.) > It's not too bad for making marinades for meat headed for the grill, and of course you can always use it to cook hot dogs. cheers, AL Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:53:57 -0700 From: "Michael O'Donnell" <mooseo at stanford.edu> Subject: Re: Pat's woes... If anyone lives close enough to Pat to drop a gallon of Guiness off at his house, I'll chip in. Probably a good time for all of us to kick in a little something for the HBD server fund. cheers, Mike Monterey, CA (too far for a beer run to Michigan) At 03:33 PM 7/16/2005, you wrote: >I think I'll settle back and drink a gallon or so of Guinness to put my >mind back in order. I also think I'm going to spend some cash on some >network-attached storage and a better backup strategy than the one I've >proven to be pretty useless here... Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:46:23 +0930 From: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> Subject: Re: Wheat recipe... On Tuesday, 12 July 2005 at 6:31:46 -0700, Michael Eyre wrote: > Anyone have a good wheat beer recipe (all-grain for 10 gal) kickin' > around? I'm fond of that Widmer brothers brew I had a little while ago > at a festival, but I'm not hung up on it. This'll be my first Wheat, so > any helpful hints are all appreciated... If this is your first, it would be a good idea to make it as generic as possible. I've made a few; take a look at http://www.lemis.com/grog/brewing/brew-47.html for the most successful one. The minerals I added there are because I brew with rainwater, which has as good as no minerals. Greg - -- The virus contained in this message was detected, clubbed to death and distributed throughout the Internet as vaccine by LEMIS anti-virus. For further details see http://www.lemis.com/grog/lemis-virus.html Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:37:16 +0100 From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: mash temps (dry ale) Darrell asks about mash temperatures for a dry ale. We make one successfully with a single infusion mash at 63degC/146degF for 90 minutes. We warm it with hot water half way through and stir well as the mash vessel isn't that well insulate it. The other things that have helped make the ale very dry are water treatment (mash is around pH5.2) and Nottingham Ale yeast. Is og1039, fg1005 dry enough chaps? David Edge Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:42:23 +0100 From: David Edge <david.j.edge at ntlworld.com> Subject: Fortnight Of Yeast, 2005 - methlyene blue Dear Dr Cone In the last fortnight of yeast you mentioned the methylene blue technique. I use methylene blue, but am not sure how long it lasts or what its failure mode is - does it make live cells look dead or dead ones look alive when it goes off? It's not easy to find so I'd like to use it as long as possible. Regards David Edge Derby, UK Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:55:40 -0400 From: Ken/Jean Schramm <schramk at mail.resa.net> Subject: Fortnight of Yeast: Rob; My questions revolve around mead fermentation. Q's for the panel: What is the ideal timing for nutrient additions for mead fermentations? How do deficiencies of specific amino acids of wine and mead musts contribute to the production of higher alcohols? The two approaches to their production I have seen in print are oxidative deamination and the carbohydrate route. Could you provide some input on which one is correct, and how it proceeds? The four higher alcohols that I have seen presented that account for off flavors in beer and wine are n-propanol, isoamyl alcohol, active amyl alcohol, and isobutanol. Are these the culprits in mead? Do you feel it is possible to conduct a .100 point SG fermentation of mead must with a FAN content of 20-40 ppm and no nutrient addition without the production of off flavors and higher alcohols? Which yeast strains might favor nutrient free fermentations, if any? (I am not a believer in this option, but I am asking on behalf of some I know who are.) Thanks, Ken Schramm Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:38:06 +0000 From: "A.J deLange" <ajdel at cox.net> Subject: Wheat Beer/RO Water Wheat Beers: Tastes vary with respect to the desired balance between clove and bannana and as to the absolute levels of both. The following comments describe a Weizen I love. Most important is to be sure to use the Weihenstephan 68 strain (Wyeast 3068, White Labs WLP300) which balances clove and bannana perfectly to my taste but is heavy on the amyl acetate according to others. Two thirds wheat malt with one third Pilsner malt insure plenty of head and wheat tang (and also a stuck mash so be sure to use 10 - 15% rice hulls in the lauter tun). I use a double decoction mash with a high (158) saccharification temperature. This puts the sweetness in balance with the tartness. Bittering is just at threshold (around 14 IBU) with a noble or near noble variety (e.g. Hallertau). I operate the yeast at around 58 F which is a little low but results in a clean beer with subtle clove and bannana. If you intend bottling then you will need to deal with saving speise and calculating the quantity. Best get Warner's monograph for that. Kegging is also a challenge because you want over three volumes of CO2 and that means high keg pressures which must be offset by a long, narrow bore draught line. RO Water: The simplest way to handle RO water for a Pils is to blend it with a little tap water. An RO unit does not produce deinonized water but rather water in which the concentration of most ions has been reduced appreciably - some more than others. For example, my well water (run through a neutralizer) has an alkalinity of about 118 with Mg hardness of 61 and Ca hardness of 115. Blended 1 part to 5 parts RO water (for the Pils I did Saturday) I got an alkalinity of 28.5, Mg hardness of 12.5, and Ca hardness of 32. Thus my RO unit appears to reject 91% of alkalinity (spec sheet says 92.9%), 95% of magnesium (spec says 99.9%) and 87% of calcium (no spec). Sulfate in the blend was down to 0.8 mg/L and chloride was also at 0.8. This is acceptable for Pils (I got 65% efficiency in the kettle). Clearly there is a little lattitude for the addition of some calcium chloride, though. For an ale one can use the same concept i.e. blending though as some ale city waters are so mineral laden one might simply think of RO water as deionized and add mineral salts as required. There are dozens of articles, books, and posts which will tell you how to do the calculations. There are also dozens of calculators and brewing software packages that will do the calculations for you. A.J. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:25:13 -0700 From: "Rod Prather" <rodpr at comcast.net> Subject: Turbo Tap I saw that too. Damned ingenious. Making the nozzle would be a snap but the cost of setup and tooling would be prohibitive unless you wanted to make a few hundred of them. Oh, by the way, I'm involved in the tube bending industry. This type of tube is usually made of lead free brass and then chrome plated or simply formed from stainless steel tube. The problem is that it has to be mandrel formed to keep the inside diameter constant and you can't do that in your home shop without a lot of tooling. A simple hand bender will cause the tube to collapse. Most of us already know that putting the nozzle against the side of the glass controls the pressure in such a way that the beer doesn't foam excessively. Something about controlling the pressure transfer. This guy just puts the nozzle on the bottom of the glass instead of the side. There is also a formed "bubble" in the middle of the nozzle, Not sure what that is. Perhaps he found some trick in Bernoulli's theory that helps with the pressure transfer OR it's just a distractrion from the obvious simplicity of the device. THE PROBLEM, IT'S PATENTED. Don't know how MUCH is patented. But this guy plans on becoming a millionarire really quick. These nozzles will be in every Sports Venue and high dispense pub in the country within a year. 1 year times $99 each. Probably costs like $5 to manufacture including labor. I know of a pub that advertises 38 beers on tap. Don't think he can justify $3762 a year for a few extra beers per keg. >"Peter A. Ensminger" <ensmingr at twcny.rr.com> >SAID >Seems to me that a HBD gadgeteer out there could reverse-engineer this >device. Maybe somebody from Listermann Manufacturing Co? Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:22:19 -0400 (EDT) From: pulsarxp at earthlink.net Subject: Ballantine Ale Clone Does anyone have a clone receipe/formula for Ballantine Ale? I would really like to hear from anyone who could help me out. I can't find one searching the web. Very frustrating! Thanks, Lee Return to table of contents
[Prev HBD] [Index] [Next HBD] [Back]
HTML-ized on 07/17/05, by HBD2HTML v1.2 by KFL
webmaster@hbd.org, KFL, 10/9/96